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Old 10-09-2012, 07:04 PM   #21
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I appreciate all of the advice, and I also did not try to make it sound like you came across short. I know that I have a long way to go, but am excited to get there. It is frustrating to read the directions and then hear all of this other info and try to figure out the best procedure.
The answer is pretty simple, generally speaking kit manufacturers, especially kit an kilo manufacturers, are concerned with selling more and more kits NOT with the brewer making the best beer possible. They know that if they say in the instructions to wait, they may loose some people to hobbies that have more instant gratification.

They also know that the time that a homebrewer will remain buying kits is relatively short...they know that after a few kits, the brewer will either give up, start brewing extract batches from recipes in books and places like this, formulate their own recipes, or go all grain...so they want to sell as many kits as possible to the new brewer before he moves on to bigger and better things.

SO they know that even their beer will taste better if you leave it longer...but they know that in the time you wait you will be reading and learning and be less likely to buy another kit...They can sell three or four kits to you if you follow their directions in the same time frame that listening to us and waiting a month and bottle conditioning for another 3-4 weeks.

You can follow their timeframe and directions, and maybe the beer will turn out "OK." Or it might not...but by just slowing the process down, and giving the yeast a chance to help, you can take that same beer which might have been just ok, and make it great.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:12 PM   #22
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The reason we leave our beers in primary or secondary for a period of time, is because it makes it taste better, than when we rush the process. It's really that simple.

I don't know if you're looking for rationalization for you excitement/impatience, but you're going to have to decide that for yourself, whether you want ok beer or great beer. This is really a game of patience.
Man, I must have sucky beer! I just kegged ten gallons of beer yesterday, that I brewed on 10/1/12.

No disrespected intended at all, of course. But a well made beer doesn't need to be left in a fermenter (whether primary or a clearing vessel) for extended times. Saying that it will taste better may or may not be true.

Generalizations are tough, because sometimes they are true. In some cases, yes, a little longer in the fermenter may mean a better beer. But also, sometimes, this is not true. It's probably not going to be worse, of course, but I would argue that it would be "better".

Normally, a properly made beer will have the correct amount of yeast pitched at the correct temperature and fermented at the correct temperature. If that is the case, the beer will often be at FG within 3-5 days. Allowing 2-3 days after active fermentation ends for the "clean up" phase is important. Longer won't hurt, but I don't think it's really necessary. Once the beer is done fermenting, as had a few days to finish up the clean up process, and it is clear, it is ready to be packaged.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:27 PM   #23
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Normally, a properly made beer will have the correct amount of yeast pitched at the correct temperature and fermented at the correct temperature. If that is the case, the beer will often be at FG within 3-5 days. Allowing 2-3 days after active fermentation ends for the "clean up" phase is important. Longer won't hurt, but I don't think it's really necessary. Once the beer is done fermenting, as had a few days to finish up the clean up process, and it is clear, it is ready to be packaged.
But this is the point that you seem to be missing....go back WAAAAAYYYYY BAAAACk to your few batches of beer, before you knew about the "correct amount of yeast pitched at the correct temperature and fermented at the correct temperature." When you just believed that the instructions were gospel, that there was enough yeast in that tube or packet to do the job, when there was NO MENTION about what temps were optimal not to prevent ester production and off flavors. When you thought the airlock was the be all and end all of fermentation indicators, and a hydrometer was something scary, complicated to understand, and might even infect your beer?

Remember those days?

It's all well and good to know that you and I and the folks with a few batches under their belt and a deeper understanding of the brewing process can go much faster. We know which grav beers can be quickly turned over. We know from experience and from learning all those great tips and tricks from on here what we need to do to get that beer in the keg fast.

But those aren't the people asking theses sorts of questions are they?

MOST of the folks coming on like the OP or the new brewers coming in nearly every day ASKING US when to do something, usually haven't heard of ANY of those things yet either, and are brewing their first few kits, as is, with no extra oxygen, underpitched possibly even stale yeast at god knows what temperature.....

You think that beer can be rushed? You think that beer will be ok as is?

There's a big difference between the beer you could put in the keg when you did, and THESE first few batches that they're making, just like we made back in the day, (when we started threads like "My grommet fell into my fermenter is my beer ruined?" )

And I think it's VERY important to make that distinction when answering these types of questions, this is the "beginner's beer forum." And the questions are USUALLY first batch questions.

I don't think I'm the one making generalizations about the beer as much as you are.

Your quick beer, and this first batch are more than likely NOT the same animals.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:53 PM   #24
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But those aren't the people asking theses sorts of questions are they?

I don't think I'm the one making generalizations about the beer as much as you are.
Oh, Michael, you know that I actually agree with you. For newer brewers, for people who don't have temperature control, people who underpitch, etc- for that I agree that rushing the beer to bottle compounds flavor issues.

But my point is not to disagree with you- as I agree with the premise. What I disagree with is the blanket statements like "if you leave the beer in the fermenter longer, it will be better". That isn't true.

Maybe what IS true would be "if you leave THIS beer in the fermenter for longer, it make the beer better, hopefully, and it certainly can't hurt!" That is my point.

I think it's easy to take a blanket statement and apply it as Gospel truth. Because you are well respected, I think some brewers might take it to heart, and then repeat it as a mantra- "leaving the beer in the primary for a month is required if you want drinkable beer". While it's not untrue, it's also not completely correct when taken to such an extreme. I've seen people on this forum repeat this, based on hearing it and not on personal experiences.

I think the only generalization I'm guilty of is saying "A well-made beer does not need an extended length of time in the fermenter". That's something I say often enough, I guess.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:03 AM   #25
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Yooper v. Revvy...

It's like clash of the titans on the beginner homebrew forum

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Old 10-10-2012, 02:28 AM   #26
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Lincoln Douglas all over again.

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