New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermenter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > Beginner brew questions




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-12-2013, 01:26 PM   #11
duboman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Glenview, IL
Posts: 5,808
Liked 429 Times on 402 Posts
Likes Given: 199

Default

Quote:
If using dry yeast, aerating the wort is of no benefit. See http://www.danstaryeast.com/frequently-asked-questions
This is somewhat misleading and not altogether true as referenced in this article by the same manufacturer:
http://www.danstaryeast.com/articles/aeration-and-starter-versus-wort

About half way down the article it explains that any beer above 3-5% should receive additional aeration of the wort and since most brewers are making beers in excess of that threshold it is best practice to aerate the wort when pitching dry yeast.

This type of mis-information is similar to liquid yeast packages that state there is no need for a starter when brewing a typical 5 gallon batch of beer. It has simply been shown that making starters is one of the most beneficial things that can be done to ensure proper pitch rate and is referenced in many technical books about brewing. Even White labs is guilty of it as shown in the book "Yeast" by White/Zainesheff as they discuss the benefits of making starters when using liquid yeast.


__________________
Nothing Left to do but smile and drink beer.....

The Commune Brewing Company-Perfecting the "art" of beer since 2010
duboman is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-12-2013, 02:19 PM   #12
nab911
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 170
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Yeah this whole thing has been misleading the last few days. I does not hurt to aerate and takes less than a minute so might as well do it. Nothing like skipping a 1 minute activity to mess up 2 months of waiting.



__________________
nab911 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-12-2013, 02:25 PM   #13
RM-MN
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Solway, MN
Posts: 6,126
Liked 639 Times on 535 Posts
Likes Given: 187

Default

That white layer in the bottom of your bottle is brewers yeast. You can buy brewers yeast at the health food store and it is good for you as it is full of B vitamins but the yeast at the health food store is dead yeast while what is in your bottle is live yeast and sometimes it reacts with your body to create gas or it can in some people create diarrhea. Some people get used to the yeast and it ceases to give them problems while others never seem to get over it. YMMV

__________________
RM-MN is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-12-2013, 03:18 PM   #14
jethro55
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 398
Liked 26 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by duboman View Post
This is somewhat misleading and not altogether true as referenced in this article by the same manufacturer:
http://www.danstaryeast.com/articles/aeration-and-starter-versus-wort

About half way down the article it explains that any beer above 3-5% should receive additional aeration of the wort and since most brewers are making beers in excess of that threshold it is best practice to aerate the wort when pitching dry yeast.

This type of mis-information is similar to liquid yeast packages that state there is no need for a starter when brewing a typical 5 gallon batch of beer. It has simply been shown that making starters is one of the most beneficial things that can be done to ensure proper pitch rate and is referenced in many technical books about brewing. Even White labs is guilty of it as shown in the book "Yeast" by White/Zainesheff as they discuss the benefits of making starters when using liquid yeast.
Keeping it simple is probably the best place to start. There are always exceptions and the article cited here speaks to one. Aeration can be important. It is important to liquid yeasts.

From boiling pot to fermenter bucket is aeration, and so is adding make-up water. That being said - two minutes of aeration with a paddle is not much effort to be sure. Just don't get hung up on it when using dry yeast as you begin to learn the various processes. A good recipe has these things figured out already and uses larger packages of dry yeast for heavy beers.
__________________

Civilization begins with Beer !

Primary: nothing in the pipeline at the moment
Secondary: some summer beers are imperative
Bottled: Nut Brown, Listermann's Cream Ale, American Pale Ale, Holiday Ale, HopNog, Honey Malt Cream Ale, Irish Stout, English Brown Ale, BIAB English Ale, India Black Ale, Bengal Juice, BIAB Cherry Wheat on the cherries, Belgian Pale Ale, Island Hefe on Mango, Island Hefe on Apricot (and dang -these are awesome beers)

Next Up: Hop farming

jethro55 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-12-2013, 03:40 PM   #15
duboman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Glenview, IL
Posts: 5,808
Liked 429 Times on 402 Posts
Likes Given: 199

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jethro55 View Post
Keeping it simple is probably the best place to start. There are always exceptions and the article cited here speaks to one. Aeration can be important. It is important to liquid yeasts.

From boiling pot to fermenter bucket is aeration, and so is adding make-up water. That being said - two minutes of aeration with a paddle is not much effort to be sure. Just don't get hung up on it when using dry yeast as you begin to learn the various processes. A good recipe has these things figured out already and uses larger packages of dry yeast for heavy beers.
I agree keeping things simple are a good place to start but I am not a fan of people that make statements that don't really promote best practice or are simply not really correct or fact.

IMVHO, aeration is one of the very key things for yeast health and fermentation process and really is quite simple to do without any equipment or extra time.

Will the beer ferment? Yes. Will the beer turn out good? Most likely. I like to try and point people in the direction of beginning using best practice so the habit of doing so continues on through their brewing evolution. If you start out learning how to do things properly the learning curve becomes much quicker and easier as you become more experienced. Nobody likes to learn from mistakes although most people do...............
__________________
Nothing Left to do but smile and drink beer.....

The Commune Brewing Company-Perfecting the "art" of beer since 2010
duboman is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-12-2013, 06:34 PM   #16
jethro55
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 398
Liked 26 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default

Though i can agree that there could be a perfect process that will work for all beers, the unnecessary in certain situations is nontheless.... unnecessary.

BTW - Best process for aeration that applies in general to any yeast and any wort involves a $400 investment. You need to get an oxygen tank and special nozzles to reach a goal that applies to only a few beers. Only needed in special circumstances. A ridiculous prospect for an average homebrewer. Best practice for what - something not needed ??

Ignoring aeration is perfectly appropriate in most dry yeast recipes. That does not mean that aeration is never important. As coaches and mentors to new brewers, we should not not steer everyone to a particular isolated concern for aeration.

__________________

Civilization begins with Beer !

Primary: nothing in the pipeline at the moment
Secondary: some summer beers are imperative
Bottled: Nut Brown, Listermann's Cream Ale, American Pale Ale, Holiday Ale, HopNog, Honey Malt Cream Ale, Irish Stout, English Brown Ale, BIAB English Ale, India Black Ale, Bengal Juice, BIAB Cherry Wheat on the cherries, Belgian Pale Ale, Island Hefe on Mango, Island Hefe on Apricot (and dang -these are awesome beers)

Next Up: Hop farming

jethro55 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-12-2013, 09:07 PM   #17
zeg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 1,215
Liked 126 Times on 108 Posts
Likes Given: 137

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jethro55 View Post
Ignoring aeration is perfectly appropriate in most dry yeast recipes. That does not mean that aeration is never important. As coaches and mentors to new brewers, we should not not steer everyone to a particular isolated concern for aeration.
If I skimmed the articles correctly, Danstar is telling us that for 3-5% beers, there's no reason to aerate. In that case (and if it's true), aeration is just an opportunity for infection. The ideal "Best Practice" would be doing everything that needs to be done and nothing that doesn't.

Generally, I would say it's fine to keep things simple at first, but don't mislead yourself (or another noob). Just be honest, "It would be best to do X, but it's something that can wait until you're more comfortable with the basics."
__________________
zeg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-12-2013, 09:12 PM   #18
nab911
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 170
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeg View Post
If I skimmed the articles correctly, Danstar is telling us that for 3-5% beers, there's no reason to aerate. In that case (and if it's true), aeration is just an opportunity for infection. The ideal "Best Practice" would be doing everything that needs to be done and nothing that doesn't.

Generally, I would say it's fine to keep things simple at first, but don't mislead yourself (or another noob). Just be honest, "It would be best to do X, but it's something that can wait until you're more comfortable with the basics."
When I get my sanitation done, I always toss a whisk in there with the batch and I also have a sanitized plate. I use that whisk for aeration I don't really think there is really much chance for infection there.
__________________
nab911 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-12-2013, 11:03 PM   #19
jethro55
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 398
Liked 26 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeg View Post
Generally, I would say it's fine to keep things simple at first, but don't mislead yourself (or another noob). Just be honest, "It would be best to do X, but it's something that can wait until you're more comfortable with the basics."
Sorry for the confusion. Did not mean to mislead. Meant to inform the normal dry yeast user with one of the details that so often results in general disinformation on yeast/aeration requirements. When using dry yeast at the proper pitching rate, aeration is not a factor. The commercial recipes have built this into the pitching rate and thus the recommendation.
__________________

Civilization begins with Beer !

Primary: nothing in the pipeline at the moment
Secondary: some summer beers are imperative
Bottled: Nut Brown, Listermann's Cream Ale, American Pale Ale, Holiday Ale, HopNog, Honey Malt Cream Ale, Irish Stout, English Brown Ale, BIAB English Ale, India Black Ale, Bengal Juice, BIAB Cherry Wheat on the cherries, Belgian Pale Ale, Island Hefe on Mango, Island Hefe on Apricot (and dang -these are awesome beers)

Next Up: Hop farming

jethro55 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-13-2013, 01:29 PM   #20
zeg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 1,215
Liked 126 Times on 108 Posts
Likes Given: 137

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nab911 View Post
When I get my sanitation done, I always toss a whisk in there with the batch and I also have a sanitized plate. I use that whisk for aeration I don't really think there is really much chance for infection there.
Not much chance, no, but there's some chance. Small enough that if it's beneficial, it's a good tradeoff. But if there's no need to add the risk, it'd be wiser not to.

Jethro, I think we're on the same page, I meant to be agreeing with and expanding a bit on your quote. I think it's very important to be clear about when a step is unnecessary versus when it's of minor importance. In the former case, no one should do the step; in the latter, it'd be best to do it, but for simplicity you can get away without it.


__________________
zeg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3 Beginner Questions - First Brew Experience CoolshipMike Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 5 12-30-2011 06:18 PM
beginner questions dougy Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 9 08-21-2010 11:41 PM
A few beginner questions... Majocr Cider Forum 2 12-13-2009 08:55 PM
More Beginner Questions jordanlee05 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 04-07-2008 07:03 PM
beginner questions sconnie Wine Making Forum 4 08-15-2006 12:26 PM