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Old 08-09-2014, 11:44 AM   #21
tektonjp
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I find that hard to believe, but you've been a member here for a very long time which makes me want to believe you 😏
Yep, very possible. Your beer will be a bit drier, and the long wait will kill you, but yeah, it's a real thing.
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Old 08-09-2014, 12:50 PM   #22
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It makes sense. Fermentation doesn't really stop when we bottle. It just slows asymptotically to the point where we don't pick up a measurable change after three days. Over three months it seems quite possible that the yeast could continue to convert what little remaining fermentable sugars are still in the beer but at an increasingly slow pace. Personally I do not have that kind of patience and that is why I make beer and not wine, mead or cider .

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Old 08-13-2014, 04:09 PM   #23
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I'm facing this problem right now. I have what seems like it'll be a very nice session saison setting there laughing at me, instead of carb'ing. Somewhere, I have a little double-ended scoop from Mr. Beer that should be perfect for the job; all I have to do is find it. Oh, and buy some more caps....

The scoop itself seems very practical, although I never used it; I went straight into batch priming instead (except when I forget). One side is for 12 oz bottles, the other is for 16 0z bottles, and each scoop has a notch on the side that makes leveling it easy.

Mine is black. Dunno why their website has a picture of a yellow one instead; it's hard to make out the details.
I tried using this scoop, shortly after posting. I opened a bottle, added a scoop of sugar - and foam came fountaining out. So that was the end of that...

I can only assume that the yeast had kept slowly working on residual sugars, as others have mentioned. So I put the batch away to see if it would carbonate enough to be worthwhile, and basically forgot about it. Out of sight, out of mind...

If I remember when I get off work this evening, I'll stash one of the bottles in the fridge and open it in a day or two.
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:20 PM   #24
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It makes sense. Fermentation doesn't really stop when we bottle. It just slows asymptotically to the point where we don't pick up a measurable change after three days. Over three months it seems quite possible that the yeast could continue to convert what little remaining fermentable sugars are still in the beer but at an increasingly slow pace. Personally I do not have that kind of patience and that is why I make beer and not wine, mead or cider .
I'm so glad someone on here is finally talking about overcarbing without immediately blaming infection. It does happen. After every beer I've bottled since I began about a year ago continued to overcarb with time, and with finally getting my first bottle bomb last weekend, I decided to get serious about seeing what's going on with my carbonation.

I borrowed a Zahn-Nagel carb tester from work and tested a bottle from every batch currently in my inventory that was made from a dry American Ale yeast (US-05, M-44 or BRY-97) and that was "normal" OG (1.050-1.070). These parameters selected so as to get a good sample size of comparable batches. I then calculated the "overcarb" on each one, defined as measured vol CO2 - target vol CO2 (as per priming calculators). Then I plotted overcarb vs. time since bottling (in weeks), and that graph is attached.

(A 2nd order polynomial or exponential fit might actually be better, and would give some hope that they eventually STOP overcarbing given enough time! Or else I guess that'd all bottle bomb eventually, huh?)

I also took gravity readings at test time and compared to the FG at bottling...which, by the way, was in all cases stable for at least a week. The 3-4 week old brews had lost 2 pts, the 7 week old brews lost 4 pts, and the 11 week old brew lost 6 pts. Yes, they are continuing to ferment in the bottle over weeks and months.

These are all 12oz bottles. All primed with corn sugar. They are all stored in stacked milk crates in a dark room at room temp (avg. ~75F). I've had numerous other batches that also were consistently finely carbed at 3-4 weeks, clearly overcarbed by 6-8 weeks, then nothing but foam-in-the-glass by 12+ weeks. Nailing carbing is my white whale.

It is not my sanitation, that's impeccable. What I do believe is that priming simply "reawakens" fermentation (just like people sometimes do when they get a stuck ferment, or when they want to make a super-strong ale with "sequential feedings" of fermentables, etc.), and in that bottle you've already got a lot of residual fermentables and especially near-fermentables(e.g., short-chain dextrins) continuing to be acid-hydrolyzed in that low-pH environment and ready to go on getting chewed up by the yeast slowly over months.

I did catch the 3-4 week old batches in time to throw many bottles in the fridge, pasteurize some, and leave some alone, so I can monitor those over the next few weeks and months. It's really too late to do anything with the others except maybe try to de-gas them a bit by tipping caps. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I gotta get a separate beer fridge for my bottles to go into at about 3-4 weeks!

I believe this happens to a lot of newbs like me who bottle and store at non-fridge temperatures (witness the many overcarb and bottle bomb threads), and most of them probably have been beaten down and convinced that their sanitation is simply bad. Well, I don't necessarily believe that's the case.
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:29 PM   #25
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Yep, very possible. Your beer will be a bit drier, and the long wait will kill you, but yeah, it's a real thing.
I can confirm that it will happen with wine. Bottled a wine after 4-6 months and multiple rackings in late winter/early spring. SG has been stable for at least a month if not two and I know have a bunch of bottles of sparkling blackberry wine. Only one has broken so far, trying to drink them quickly...
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Old 08-14-2014, 02:13 AM   #26
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I have noticed that sometimes if my DIPAs finish higher than I want them (1.018-1.014) and are cloying sweet they get way better after a month in the bottle and lose that unwanted sweetness.

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Old 08-14-2014, 05:44 AM   #27
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I've got a batch a porter that in now gushing upon opening. I kept thinking infection, but it tastes fine ( when I can save some!). You post leads me to conclude that a combination of bottling a little too soon (didn't check FG since it was three weeks in the bucket - 05 yeast) and now the bottles have set out too long in the warmer room. I may have to do a dedicated fridge for them as well.
Good research and post!

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrazela View Post
I'm so glad someone on here is finally talking about overcarbing without immediately blaming infection. It does happen. After every beer I've bottled since I began about a year ago continued to overcarb with time, and with finally getting my first bottle bomb last weekend, I decided to get serious about seeing what's going on with my carbonation.

I borrowed a Zahn-Nagel carb tester from work and tested a bottle from every batch currently in my inventory that was made from a dry American Ale yeast (US-05, M-44 or BRY-97) and that was "normal" OG (1.050-1.070). These parameters selected so as to get a good sample size of comparable batches. I then calculated the "overcarb" on each one, defined as measured vol CO2 - target vol CO2 (as per priming calculators). Then I plotted overcarb vs. time since bottling (in weeks), and that graph is attached.

(A 2nd order polynomial or exponential fit might actually be better, and would give some hope that they eventually STOP overcarbing given enough time! Or else I guess that'd all bottle bomb eventually, huh?)

I also took gravity readings at test time and compared to the FG at bottling...which, by the way, was in all cases stable for at least a week. The 3-4 week old brews had lost 2 pts, the 7 week old brews lost 4 pts, and the 11 week old brew lost 6 pts. Yes, they are continuing to ferment in the bottle over weeks and months.

These are all 12oz bottles. All primed with corn sugar. They are all stored in stacked milk crates in a dark room at room temp (avg. ~75F). I've had numerous other batches that also were consistently finely carbed at 3-4 weeks, clearly overcarbed by 6-8 weeks, then nothing but foam-in-the-glass by 12+ weeks. Nailing carbing is my white whale.

It is not my sanitation, that's impeccable. What I do believe is that priming simply "reawakens" fermentation (just like people sometimes do when they get a stuck ferment, or when they want to make a super-strong ale with "sequential feedings" of fermentables, etc.), and in that bottle you've already got a lot of residual fermentables and especially near-fermentables(e.g., short-chain dextrins) continuing to be acid-hydrolyzed in that low-pH environment and ready to go on getting chewed up by the yeast slowly over months.

I did catch the 3-4 week old batches in time to throw many bottles in the fridge, pasteurize some, and leave some alone, so I can monitor those over the next few weeks and months. It's really too late to do anything with the others except maybe try to de-gas them a bit by tipping caps. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I gotta get a separate beer fridge for my bottles to go into at about 3-4 weeks!

I believe this happens to a lot of newbs like me who bottle and store at non-fridge temperatures (witness the many overcarb and bottle bomb threads), and most of them probably have been beaten down and convinced that their sanitation is simply bad. Well, I don't necessarily believe that's the case.
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The Search for God and Guinness by Stephen Mansfield

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