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Old 02-29-2008, 07:12 PM   #1
polamalu43
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Default banana esters in a weizen question

I've done some reading on brewing weizen's so that they can get that clove and banana weinenstephen taste, which I love. From what I understand, you need to get the specific strain of yeast to achieve this (wyeast 3068).

In order to further accentuate the banana ester flavors, am I right to try and ferment at higher temperature (75 degrees)? How high is too high if you are going for these estery flavors?

Is there anything else that can be done to improve the banana and clove tastes of a weizen? Has anyone ever tried to make a weinstephaner weizen clone?

Thanks in advance for your responses.



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Old 02-29-2008, 07:31 PM   #2
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High temps = ester production (banana)
Lower temps = phenol production (cloves)

You want to try and keep your ferment temps on the lower side. My understanding is the raise in temp during the initial ferment produces more ester and as it slows and temps drop you produce your phenols. You are going to want more clove than banana so pitch to a cooler wort



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Old 02-29-2008, 07:33 PM   #3
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I wouldn't ferment that high, the esters might overpower the beer at that point. Generally, I ferment around 62F and I get a great balance between the phenols and esters, but if you want more "banana" you can ferment around 68-70F.

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Old 02-29-2008, 07:38 PM   #4
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I ferment at 70-72...I like banana also.

Any (liquid) German Weizen hefe will work great...do make a nice sized starter.

Yes, there is a Weihenstephan Weizen yeast available.

I have a couple WLP300s done that really accentuate the bubblegum flavor.

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Old 02-29-2008, 07:42 PM   #5
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I used White Labs WLP300 and fermented in the mid 60's and got good banana flavor from it.

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Old 03-01-2008, 03:03 PM   #6
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I live in FLorida so my temps are always high. I pitch to a 68 degree wort and then it ferments at about 72-74 and I get great Bananna flavor with not off tastes.

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Old 03-01-2008, 03:53 PM   #7
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I'm looking at wyeast 3638 for that banana & bubble gum flavor.

Top cropping hefeweizen yeast with complex flavor and aroma. Balance of banana and bubble gum esters with lichi and apple/plum esters and clove.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_styleguidelines.cfm#sg3

This link has some good info... scroll to the bottom wheat section.

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Old 03-01-2008, 04:04 PM   #8
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i've read some things in Warners "German Wheat Beer" and Ray Daniels "Designing Great Beers" that calls for intial at lower temps (65f) then moving to gradually higher temps (70 - 73f). thats the two cents!

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Old 03-10-2008, 06:00 PM   #9
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Thanks eschatz. Any other tips for wheat beers?

I am really striving to do my best to capture that weinenstephaner banana and clove sweetness.

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Old 03-10-2008, 06:46 PM   #10
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Yeah most of the authenticity you seek is in that yeast, and proper ferment temps for the yeast. Also, hopefully your recipe is really simple. If the recipe gets too busy, it'll detract from your goals. Banana esters in particular seem to be one of those things that some people are very sensitive to. I like my regular Hefe's to have the Banana (WLP300), but I like my Dunkel with more clove or other fruits (WLP380). There are lots of good choices out there. But as mentioned, get the Weihenstephaner strain if you want to reproduce that!

Ahh, ok this makes sense the WLP300= 3068. I think I fermented around 67/68 °F with it and it had a good balance.



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