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Old 12-11-2009, 07:27 PM   #1
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Default Astringency from sanitizer?

I just got done bottling my second brew. It tasted good coming out of the secondary, but after being in the bottle for only a few hours it was really astringent (dry mouth/hairy tongue). I didn't let the StarSan completely dry from the inside of the bottles before filling (not soaked, but not all the way dry). Has anyone had this problem with StarSan? Could this be caused by oxidation during bottling? I had the same problem with my first brew and blamed it on over heating during grain steeping, but this time I noticed that the astringency didn't come until after putting it in the bottle.
Any ideas?


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Old 12-11-2009, 07:29 PM   #2
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No way it is star san.... I bottle on it wet, full of bubbles, etc.

dont fear the foam.

Why were you tasting the beer a couple of HOURS after bottling?!!?

I am going to let someone else take at stab at this. I say put them away until after New years, then try them.



Welcome to HBT... a bunch of great folks here will help answer all you questions.

I just reccomend going to howtobrew.com read all of the book. Brew another batch. and repeat.

don't worry.... it takes time 3 to 4 weeks in bottle depending on what you brewed, but it wants to be beer!

Lots of great reading here in the meantime!
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Last edited by chefmike; 12-11-2009 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:32 PM   #3
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It can't be Starsan, if you are mixing at the correct concentration. It is a wet contact no rinse sanitizer and doesn't change the taste of beer if mixed correctly.

Sounds like you are doing extract with steeping grains? It could possibly be from heating the grains too hot too long or both. The dry mouth is classic tannin. I can't think of anywhere else in your process tannins would be picked up though.
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeJones View Post
I just got done bottling my second brew. It tasted good coming out of the secondary, but after being in the bottle for only a few hours it was really astringent (dry mouth/hairy tongue). I didn't let the StarSan completely dry from the inside of the bottles before filling (not soaked, but not all the way dry). Has anyone had this problem with StarSan? Could this be caused by oxidation during bottling? I had the same problem with my first brew and blamed it on over heating during grain steeping, but this time I noticed that the astringency didn't come until after putting it in the bottle.
Any ideas?
No starsan wouldn't cause anything, it basically become yeast food once it come in contact with anythign fermenting.

The astringency you perceive is just a harshness from co2 being produced right now, many folks misdiagnose that.

The biggest thing is that you beer has a LOOOOOONG journey over the next minimum three weeks that it is going to need to carb an condition.

It's really only down the line, AFTER the beer has been fermented (and often after it has bottle conditioned even,) that you concern yourself with any flavor issues if they are still there.

I think too many new brewers focus to much on this stuff too early in the beer's journey. And they panic unnecessarily.

A lot of the stuff you smell/taste initially more than likely ends up disappearing either during a long primary/primary & secondary combo, Diacetyl rests and even during bottle conditioning.

If I find a flavor/smell, I usually wait til it's been in the bottle 6 weeks before I try to "diagnose" what went wrong, that way I am sure the beer has passed any window of greenness.

Fementation is often ugly, smelly and crappy tasting in the beginning and perfectly normal. The various conditioning phases, be it long primary, secondarying, D-rests, bottle conditioning, AND LAGERING, are all part of the process where the yeast, and co2 correct a lot of the normal production of the byproducts of fermentation.

Lagering is a prime example of this. Lager yeast are prone to the production of a lot of byproducts, the most familiar one is sulphur compounds (rhino farts) but in the dark cold of the lagering process, which is at the minimum of a month (I think many homebrewers don't lager long enough) the yeast slowly consumes all those compounds which results in extremely clean tasting beers if done skillfully.

Ales have their own version of this, but it's all the same.

If you are sampling your beer before you have passed a 'window of greeness" which my experience is about 3-6 weeks in the bottle, then you are more than likely just experiencing an "off flavor" due to the presence of those byproducts (that's what we mean when we say the beer is "green" it's still young and unconditioned.) but once the process is done, over 90% of the time the flavors/smells are gone.

Of the remaining 10%, half of those may still be salvageable through the long time storage that I mention in the Never dump your beer!!! Patience IS a virtue!!! Time heals all things, even beer

And the remaining 50% of the last 10% are where these tables and lists come into play. To understand what you did wrong, so you can avoid it in the future.


Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

So right now, there is no cause for concern, nor is there really any reason to waste your beer by sampling it "after a few hours in the bottle." All you are going to be tasting is green beer...and just as you discovered it often tastes like crap.
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:34 PM   #5
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Let it condition in the bottles for the proper amount of time. The yeasties will feast on the star san.
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edcculus View Post
It can't be Starsan, if you are mixing at the correct concentration. It is a wet contact no rinse sanitizer and doesn't change the taste of beer if mixed correctly.

Sounds like you are doing extract with steeping grains? It could possibly be from heating the grains too hot too long or both. The dry mouth is classic tannin. I can't think of anywhere else in your process tannins would be picked up though.
You're over analysing it buddy, he just opened up a bottle after it was carbing for a few hours..... It's doubtful any of this taste will exist in 3 weeks.

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Old 12-11-2009, 07:40 PM   #7
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you know, I've gotten into the bad habit of only reading a few words of peoples posts. Didn't realize it was freshly bottled.

Completely ignore what I said, except the starsan thing.
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:42 PM   #8
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you know, I've gotten into the bad habit of only reading a few words of peoples posts. Didn't realize it was freshly bottled.

Completely ignore what I said, except the starsan thing.
LOL...I do too, but the first thing I look for is if the person says how long the beer is in the bottle...then obviously if they don't mention it, my first question is "How Long?"
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:36 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the advise.

Yeah, I've read Palmer's on-line book about three times.

I did do an extract with DME and steeped grain. I was very careful with the grain, 150-165F for 25 min. I checked it every 5 min. to make sure the temp didn't get too high.

I was tasting the beer out of bottles a few hours old because my friends were really excited about it (I knew that it wasn't even close to being ready). So I took two bottles and let them taste the green, un-carbed beer. I was worried about the astringency because I didn't notice it when I tasted beer directly out of the secondary during bottling, but it showed up after it had been in the bottles and in contact with wet sanitizer for a few hours. Revvy's comment about harshness from CO2 production makes sense since after adding the carbing sugar CO2 production would have started in the bottles.

I will wait and check the carbonation and flavor again at Christmas (this will be three weeks in the bottle).

Happy Holidays HBT!
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeJones View Post
Thanks for all the advise.

Revvy's comment about harshness from CO2 production makes sense since after adding the carbing sugar CO2 production would have started in the bottles.

I will wait and check the carbonation and flavor again at Christmas (this will be three weeks in the bottle).

Happy Holidays HBT!
I was catching up on Craftbrewer radio podcasts out of Australia a couple weeks back while I was stovetop brewing, and they were giving a great explanation of that when diagnosing someone's emailed "question" very similar to yours.


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