Analyzing and Visualizing the Benifits of Continuous Hopping?

Let's start by stating I have 9 days off in a row starting Saturday, time to brew some beers!

Long story short, I've decided first up on deck will be a Maris Otter / Centennial SMaSH IPA (first time using both). Starting off with a normal hop schedule, I toyed with the idea of hopping continuously every 3 minutes for the 60 minute boil just for the hell of it to see what I would get in the end (Not a stranger to continuous hopping, as long as I have cold beer to drink I'll throw hops at the wort all night long).

I put this together to help visualize:


Apologies for my 5th grade art.

Breaking down the chart you have a 60 minute boil, on the left is your bitterness, on the right is your aroma, the bottom of the chart shows the time line of the boil, the left part of the chart shows the bitterness / aroma utilization percentage of the hops based off of when they are added.

My question is, does continuous hopping model the red line on the left chart, or the blue line on the right chart, or am I totally off my rocker here and it's something totally different? It's been described from DFH as creating an all around whole hop utilization to achieve the best of both worlds, but is that really the case here? Per HBT Wiki: "Pioneered by Dogfish Head brewery, this technique involves adding multiple small hop additions throughout the boil to get a full, rounded hop bitterness and flavor"...

I'm a little thick so pardon my questions.

Would you mind explaining what the colors are and what they mean? And why do you have two graphs?

I'm just in on this one for my own education.

Sure!

The question: I'm trying to figure out the benefits of continuous hopping vs traditional hopping and if it in fact better utilizes your hop for both aroma and bitterness.

The Base: So the bottom of the graph, from left going right, labels the boil time in 15 minute increments 60 (start) -> 45 -> 30 -> 15 -> 0min (end). The "blue" fill of the graph that starts at the upper left sloping to the bottom right corner symbolizes the bitterness of your hop. The further into the boil it goes, the bitterness effect of the hop falls lower (scaled using the percentages on the left side of the chart). Opposite of that, the green fill symbolizes the aroma utilization of your hop hence at 60 min its extremely low, but further you go into the boil, the higher it goes.

The reason there are 2 charts: Which better shows what continuous hopping does?

Plausible on graph 1: See the red line that follows the bitterness ratio downwards then meets in the middle with the aroma ratio, then follows it back up.

Plausible on graph 2: See the blue line that starts in the upper left corner but arcs downwards and back up to the upper left corner.


Really I'm here out of curiosity, I've only continuously hopped DFH clones, my normal style is to drop a big bitter addition then blast the last 10-15 minutes. I was hoping somebody may be able to clarify the benefits..

I would think your hypothesis would be true. Considering how layering would impart bitterness and aroma through the whole spectrum, rather than a grouping of less characteristics. My question would be could the tongue and nose distinguish the difference?

Brew_4iT said:

My question would be could the tongue and nose distinguish the difference?

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Exactly!

Benefits or a gimmick, or would it even matter in the end?

I've settled on doing continuous additions for my SMaSH for the fun of it, but I'm officially on board for an experiment, got the time off anyways and more beer is always good to have!

Regular IPA - 1 gal batch
1.5lbs DME
.1 carafoam
60min - .5 cascade
10min - .16 cascade
07min - .16 cascade
05min - .16 cascade
Nottingham Ale

Continuous IPA - 1 gal batch
1.5lbs DME
.1 carafoam
60min - .065 cascade 56min - .065 cascade
52min - .065 cascade 48min - .065 cascade
44min - .065 cascade 40min - .065 cascade
36min - .065 cascade 32min - .065 cascade
28min - .065 cascade 24min - .065 cascade
20min - .065 cascade 16min - .065 cascade
12min - .065 cascade 08min - .065 cascade
04min - .065 cascade
Nottingham Ale

Identically:
1.066 OG
1.016 FG
6.5%ABV
54-56IBU

Not going to dry hop either one to showcase only what was contributed in the boil. I'll invite some friends over and have them blindly taste each.

Subscribed! I find this really interesting. I like how you are using cascade as a constant for your experiment. I really think your on to something, this could change the philosophy behind hop additions.

Have you run any IBU calculations with Centennial (should be close to double that of Cascade)? I've done the NB Two Hearted clone which is also all Centennial and a nicely balanced between bittering and flavor/aroma. That recipe only called for 1 oz at 60 min to 30 minute mark before adding the second 1 oz. I don't think I'd want half my hops added before the 30 minute mark. Curious as to your results though.

i'm about to try the same sort of continuous hopping in a pale ale with the added twist of no sparge. just for kicks.

Jsmith82 said:

Exactly!

Benefits or a gimmick, or would it even matter in the end?

I've settled on doing continuous additions for my SMaSH for the fun of it, but I'm officially on board for an experiment, got the time off anyways and more beer is always good to have!

Regular IPA - 1 gal batch
1.5lbs DME
.1 carafoam
60min - .5 cascade
10min - .16 cascade
07min - .16 cascade
05min - .16 cascade
Nottingham Ale

Continuous IPA - 1 gal batch
1.5lbs DME
.1 carafoam
60min - .065 cascade 56min - .065 cascade
52min - .065 cascade 48min - .065 cascade
44min - .065 cascade 40min - .065 cascade
36min - .065 cascade 32min - .065 cascade
28min - .065 cascade 24min - .065 cascade
20min - .065 cascade 16min - .065 cascade
12min - .065 cascade 08min - .065 cascade
04min - .065 cascade
Nottingham Ale

Identically:
1.066 OG
1.016 FG
6.5%ABV
54-56IBU

Not going to dry hop either one to showcase only what was contributed in the boil. I'll invite some friends over and have them blindly taste each.

Click to expand...

I like this idea. One thing I'd do differently, is keep the last hop addition at the same time. In the regular IPA you have your last hop addition at 5 mins and in the continuous you have it at 4 mins. that extra minute could be a "big deal". DO both at at either 4 mins or 5 mins (doesn't matter). Just the scientist in me speaking.

Very interesting experiment.

+1 to temptnmonkey - you should just drop the last addition on the first batch to 4 min.

For some reason when I think of continual hopping, I picture myself standing around munching on chips, drinking a beer, and blindly throwing individual hop pellets over my shoulder at the boil. Maybe a hook shot or two

HomebrewMTB said:

Have you run any IBU calculations with Centennial (should be close to double that of Cascade)? I've done the NB Two Hearted clone which is also all Centennial and a nicely balanced between bittering and flavor/aroma. That recipe only called for 1 oz at 60 min to 30 minute mark before adding the second 1 oz. I don't think I'd want half my hops added before the 30 minute mark. Curious as to your results though.

Click to expand...

I have, here's a screen shot:



For only 2 ounces of hops, this SMaSH is pulling some heavy IBUs due to the many additions on the early end, however as the bitterness ratio falls the aroma ratio is always increasing so I'm predicting that it will balance (the right chart from my first post). I'll be throwing an ounce in 7 days before I bottle as well.

As for the 2 experimental brews, I'm going to the LHBS today and will probably be brewing them both tonight, I'll be sure to take pictures.. I was even talking to SWMBO about doing a time lapse .gif of the continuous brew just for the fun of it.

I have made adjustments to the Regular IPA, moved the late addition to 4 but I also adjusted the amounts to the following:

Regular IPA - 1 gal batch
1.5lbs DME
.1 carafoam
60min - .44 cascade
10min - .19 cascade
07min - .19 cascade
04min - .18 cascade
Nottingham Ale

I dropped the bitter end to match the IBUs of the continuous IPA, each should now pull 38-39 in the first half of the boil, then the remaining will come from the second half. I've also been contemplating ditching the 3 late additions in the regular IPA and adding .56 (remainder of the ounce) at 7 minutes, this would match the IBUs of the Continuous but would truly be 1 bitter addition and 1 aroma addition.

Thoughts or feedback on this? Leave 3 late adding the last at 4 minutes, or add it all at the middle mark, 7 minutes.

For some reason when I think of continual hopping, I picture myself standing around munching on chips, drinking a beer, and blindly throwing individual hop pellets over my shoulder at the boil. Maybe a hook shot or two

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You pretty much hit the nail on the head! When we brewed the 120, it was literally my buddy and myself with a couple of stools pulled up to the pot with a clipboard checklist for additions (we actually did the 40 additions over 2 hours, 1 every 3 minutes). We were going behind the back, distance, etc.. Having fun with it. I can't find the picture but I took one of our empties after the boil was complete, I think 120 takes about 11 beers split between 2 people to brew

Finally made it by the LHBS, they were out of cascade but had...

Amarillo?!?!!

Well that was a no brainer! I haven't seen amarillo around for months, prost to that! I'm brewing everything off tomorrow, pics to come.

Cool man awaiting feedback!

So this has been the craziest week of my life, I didn't get anything brewed, I did however find out that I'm going to be a Dad!! Our first!!

Pretty much spent my vacation with Mrs Jsmith discussing plans and reorganizing, etc.. The "honey-do" has grown immensely over the past 7 days. I'll have a lot of free time this week to do the small batches so I'm playing it by ear, thinking maybe Wednesday night, saving my SMaSH for the upcoming weekend.

Sorry for the procrastination, but what a legitimate reason! I'm so excited

Congrats on the new addition!!! Nap time makes perfect brew time.

Sent from my iPad using HB Talk

Not trying to hijack the thread, but on the topic of 1g batches, what is best to ferment a 1g batch in? I want to try something similar.

hough77 said:

Not trying to hijack the thread, but on the topic of 1g batches, what is best to ferment a 1g batch in? I want to try something similar.

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I use 1 gallon jugs with blow off tubes, once fermentation has calmed, pull the hose and put in a CO2 lock. The Mr. Beer Keg works well also, you can usually find them on Amazon or Ebay for very cheap. They can fit up to 2.5 gallons (more I believe but you wouldn't want to fill it that high). I've done 1 and 2 gallon batches in them before, worked awesome.

Only concern, since the lid is designed to let minimal CO2 escape and there is no water lock, I NEVER open the lid. Probably overly paranoid b/c I'm sure there is a nice layer of CO2 protecting everything but meh, don't need to open it anyways, might as well be safe.


Thanks IB74!

Cool thanx!

OK!!!

Got my buddy lined up to come over tonight around 9pm, got 2 liters of N/A carbed apple cider for the misses, got some HB in the fridge for myself, this experiment goes down TONIGHT!

I WILL have some pictures up tomorrow!

I can't wait to see what happens.

Brews completed, the boil off ratio though was WAY different than BeerSmith predicted, I'm good with it though - 1 pack Nottingham split between about 1.5 gallons of beer should be plenty of yeast to make up for the higher gravity. Here we go:

Everything together and ready:


Hop split - 2 for beer 1, 20 for beer 2:


Steeping the grains:


Mashed and sparged, bringing up the heat:


Double boil on!

Tracking the additions:


Buddy actually showed up with a 4 pack of DFH 90min! That is rare if you live in St. Louis! Picture worthy..


Cooling down, double bay sink swapping:


Sanitizing my blow off tubes, corks, bottles, and the bag used to strain each batch (I do NOT strain out my beers but because of the minimal amounts, I figured it may be beneficial):


Labeled up, yeast poured, capped, and hosed:

Last up, home for the next 4 weeks; welcome to the brew closet:


We'll see what happens in the end. Should be interesting...

Just woke up, been about 10 hours, each brew had about 1.5 inches of krausen and is starting to make noise. Last pic for a while..

We have liftoff!

subscribing

Subscribed as well!

Nice pics, I wonder if it would be possible for you to send a couple bottles to a beer guru on this site to help judge the final product. But I don't know probably be difficult with such limited quantities.

I definitely want to recruit a couple people from this topic to try the 2 blindly and post thier results. I figure I'll label one X and the other 0, then tell which is which after opinions have been posted.

The krausen had risen to the cork in both jugs btw..

oooooooooo memememe!!!!! i would love to be involved in your experiment

Well I'm no beer genius but I would totally be in on the experiment. You could tone the trial samples down to 4 oz and have more people participate... do they make 4 oz containers???

I don't know maybe it would be better to have novice palates (atleast mine) than to have more mature analysis'. More like how the general populace would respond to your method.

JAStout said:

Subscribed as well!

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What he ^^^ said.

Brew_4iT said:

Well I'm no beer genius but I would totally be in on the experiment. You could tone the trial samples down to 4 oz and have more people participate... do they make 4 oz containers???

I don't know maybe it would be better to have novice palates (atleast mine) than to have more mature analysis'. More like how the general populace would respond to your method.

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My LHBS sells 6oz splits but I don't want to pay for them, they cost more that 12oz bottles! Can't figure that one out.. I'll just stick to 12s. I'll shoot you a PM soon.

Glad I used the tubes even though the amount of wort that went to the jugs was about 1/3 a gallon shy. The continuous hop krausen has climbed up the jug into the cork and barely started to become visible in the tube, I think though it's on the rebound and settling back down.

Lot's of action in both jugs, man do I love beer!

So I crunched out some numbers, really I should have just topped each jug off to the 1 gallon mark since the boil off ratio was incorrect, I honestly don't know why I didn't, I was pretty tired from the week and finding out the news, etc... Because I didn't top it off, the gravity was right at 1.095. Luckily with the lesser amount of liquid the IBUs have increased for both, the finished product is definitely going to be an imperial IPA, the ABV is going to be pretty high, I'm predicting around 9-9.5. Kind of a bummer because I wanted this to be lighter but oh well, the show must go on! It will be beer in the end, just anabolic beer :rockin:

Because of the higher alc content, I'm thinking I may take my last ounce of Amarillo and dry hop each with .5 ounces. Shouldn't cause any harm, just help with the aroma and profile of the beer, I'm afraid without it it's going to be to strong on the malt and warmth.

When it comes time to taste this experiment, I think it'll be extremely important to take really good notes and cleanse the pallet really well. All the hops and strength of this beer are going to make it tough to accurately taste each methinks.

wow with an abv that high how long you think your going to condition it for? Wouldn't want to condition for too long either though because the hop aroma and flavor will dissipate. I don't mind drinking strong beer but might be hard to figure out hop characteristics if it tastes like rocket fuel.

There will always be some variables I wouldn't sweat over the boil off too much. Good way to iron out some things if you were ever to try this experiment again you would have everything covered.

What temperature did you mash at? I forget if you mentioned it earlier in the thread. If the temp was around 140-150 most of the sugars will be fermentable and finish more dry having a lot less malt sweetness. A lot of people do 150-155 for a balance between the two.

I generally aim between 149 & 151 for my mash temps though with this 2 gallon experiment I simply steeped the crystal and used dme.

Yeah guys, been thinking on this one. My local Worm's Way has a ton of Cascade in right now, I think I'm going to run up there on my lunch break today and pickup a couple ounces with another 3lbs of DME, pull a re-do, get that body and ABV lower. Meh, what's another week anyhow..

And in the end I still get a little over a 12pack worth of Amarillo IIPA; nothing wrong with that!

Just got back from the shop, went ahead and picked up what I noted above, I'll brew it off either late tonight or tomorrow AM. Can't believe I didn't just top of the first go, I don't know what the hell was going through my head.

Hey man, rereading my post seemed a little harsh for all the work you did. Even if you had to condition a little longer your amarillo brews, the hop aromas would dissipate at the same rate and I'm sure enough hop characteristics would come through to judge.

Yeah I wouldn't worry too much of the mash temps then if you are only steeping the crystal, you wont get much fermentables out of specialty grains anyways. That is why they are used for flavoring and such.

Nahh, wasn't harsh at all. We honestly need a normal base beer for judging and with the elevated levels on batch 1 it was just going to make everything harder to judge though fortunately since there is no added sugar, only extract, the infamous rocket fuel scent shouldn't be present but well hidden. However thinking on it though, it can bottle age just as well as age in the jug so after I brew off batch 2, I'll probably put both in the bottle the same weekend at the 4-5 week mark, both can still be tested just at different times. Just more data, we now have a normal beer that will heavily note the hops and an imperial beer which would more resemble the outrageous creations of DFH. It doesn't take much to convince me to brew.. It was nice to hit the LHBS anyways, needed some yeast food, caps, dextrose, carapils, etc; grocery supplies.

Sweet note: Off topic, but APPLE SEASON IS UPON US!! Got my first batch of Eckert's Apple Cider today, going to toss in some dextrose and montrachet yeast tonight. I have never used their cider before, a local St. Louis farm staple, but I've heard it works amazing for Apfelwein. They don't sell the cider online so if anyone is around Bel-Vegas (ville) IL, stop and get some while you can!

Okay, 2 gallons of Cascade IPA done and done. Brew went awesome, clean and fast, 1 gallon a piece this time . I found these FANTASTIC pots yesterday while at the store with my wife. 2 gallon stainless steel pots with lids, $6.50 a piece. I couldn't believe the price, bought 2 of them for times like these when I'm brewing small batches. Here's some more eye candy:

Double boil in the brand new 2 gallon steel pots:


Hop shot and additions:


The "new" brew closet, with the little one on the way we transferred my brew room / second bedroom into the basement spare room, it's cooler down there anyways.. You can see the 2 newbies up front as well as the 2 from last weekend.


Last up, I pitched around 5pm yesterday, then this morning at roughly 7:00am it was going bananas with a full on krausen coaster in the blowoff tubes. I totally expect to find these lines filled when I get home tonight..

[ame]http://youtu.be/2lfJ5AMcecw[/ame]

**EDIT** Ugh, I give up... Check the link above if you want to see the video, I've tried youtube tags, object embedding, iframe embedding, I can't seem to get the video to show in the topic.

Wow $6.50 a piece! I paid triple that for a crappy stock pot..

Looks pretty heady man, nice work!

Can't help you with the video stuff, not quite that savvy. I'll check it out though.

Getting ready to do a late brew tonight, first time doing a porter. Not sure if I'm going to dryhop or not, porters seems to be more versatile than stouts but I don't want it to compete against the dark malty character. hmmmm