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Old 06-23-2013, 01:27 PM   #21
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this is what i was thinking, if you have to get the temp to below 70, why wouldnt you just add ice cold water to drop it? fastest way i know.
You can add ice water- the thing is, you still have to chill the wort a bit first to about 100, then add the ice water. If you just add ice water to 200+ degree wort, you'll just have more too-warm wort to chill, as it won't bring it down to 70 degrees that way. But if you chill the wort to 100 degrees or less, and then add cold water you should be right in the 60s which is perfect for adding the yeast!


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BREW DAY! i will be hitting the pots after work and some set up in the garage for the expectant fermentation vessel. wish me luck. I'm going in lads!
Good luck- let us know if you have any problems or questions as they come up. Normally, we're very quick to answer.
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:27 PM   #22
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forgot this,
WHOOHOO!!!!!!!

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Old 06-23-2013, 05:25 PM   #23
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You can add ice water- the thing is, you still have to chill the wort a bit first to about 100, then add the ice water. If you just add ice water to 200+ degree wort, you'll just have more too-warm wort to chill, as it won't bring it down to 70 degrees that way. But if you chill the wort to 100 degrees or less, and then add cold water you should be right in the 60s which is perfect for adding the yeast!
hmm, I never thought of that. And I admit that it's the last bit, getting down to 60s that's the hardest so I have the very bad habit of watching it creep through the nineties muttering "c'mon, c'mon" and when it gets to the 80 saying "oh close enough". So if I still had the ice on hand instead of using it all up to get the wort down to 140...

And then there are those who instruct to put the ice into the fermentor and pour the cooled wort (in eighties or nineties) or so onto the ice.

*BUT* logically and physically I'm not sure your argument actually makes any sense. Getting gallons of boiling wort + several quarts of ice combined to a uniform room temperature should take the same amount of time, logically, regardless as to when you combine the two.

However you are right. What good is it to add the ice early and rushing through 212- 180 in five minutes when it's the rushing from 90 to 60 that one is more likely to cut short?
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:42 PM   #24
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*BUT* logically and physically I'm not sure your argument actually makes any sense. Getting gallons of boiling wort + several quarts of ice combined to a uniform room temperature should take the same amount of time, logically, regardless as to when you combine the two.
It's simple science. If you cool, say, 2 gallons to 100 degrees in an ice bath it will be quicker than trying to cool 5 gallons.

Cooling 2 gallons to under 100 degrees in an ice bath in the sink takes about 15 minutes, more or less. Stirring the wort (and the ice bath) with a sanitized spoon speeds the process remarkably.

Once the wort is 100 degrees, adding 3 gallons of ice water to it will cool it down to pitching temperatures.

Otherwise, if you have 2 gallons of boiling wort and add 3 gallons of ice and water, you'll have 90+ degree wort that will take a very very long time to cool.

Try it if you don't believe me!
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:55 PM   #25
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When I started, I would buy 2, 1 gallon water jugs from the store (so the the water is sanitary) and freeze them. Then when it's time to cool, cut the plastic off the jugs so I have 2, 1 gallon ice blocks. I placed them in my fermenting bucket and poured hot wort over them. This always seemed to get me down to my temps, and even once I couldn't get one of them to melt for a long time. Just my piece of experience. Have fun!

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Old 06-24-2013, 01:21 AM   #26
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It's simple science. If you cool, say, 2 gallons to 100 degrees in an ice bath it will be quicker than trying to cool 5 gallons.
True. but you are trying to cool 2 gallons from 212 to 114.5 (at which point the average temperature of 2 gallons of 114.5 wort and 3 gallons of 32 degree ice is 5 gallons of 65 degree wort). That's 97.5 degrees. I'm trying to cool 5 gallons, true. But I'm starting at 100 (the average of 3 gallons at 32 and 2 gallons at 212) and cooling to 65. That's only 35 degrees.

You're cooling 197 degree-gallons and I'm cooling 175 degree-gallons. I'm not sure that it's determinable which is faster. I think it depends on surface area and maybe on the temp of the medium (air/ice bath) we are cooling within. I still suspect, though I can't claim I know, that it'd be a wash.

But I admit yours is probably a lot less nerve wracking.

I will do it your way in the future 'cause I have to admit those last get through the 90s phase are killin' me.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:24 AM   #27
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True. but you are trying to cool 2 gallons from 212 to 114.5 (at which point the average temperature of 2 gallons of 114.5 wort and 3 gallons of 32 degree ice is 5 gallons of 65 degree wort). That's 97.5 degrees. I'm trying to cool 5 gallons, true. But I'm starting at 100 (the average of 3 gallons at 32 and 2 gallons at 212) and cooling to 65. That's only 35 degrees.
Yes...........but- you've got volume to think about once you are at 5 gallons. It takes a LONG time for 5 gallons of 100 to cool in an ice bath.

I can boil 2.5 gallons, cool it to 100, add 2.5 gallons of ice cold water and be at 62 degrees in less than 20 minutes flat. The volume is critical! In an ice bath, the smaller the volume the faster it will cool.
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Old 06-24-2013, 02:13 AM   #28
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Yes...........but- you've got volume to think about once you are at 5 gallons. It takes a LONG time for 5 gallons of 100 to cool in an ice bath.

I can boil 2.5 gallons, cool it to 100, add 2.5 gallons of ice cold water and be at 62 degrees in less than 20 minutes flat. The volume is critical! In an ice bath, the smaller the volume the faster it will cool.
welllll....... okay.

But I'm not convinced. I mean it seems like we're both trying to achieve the same thing (turn two gallons of hot wort into five gallons of cool wort) with the same tools (an ice bath and 3 gallons of ice) and it seems that as long as neither of us do anything *indirect* to our goal it's gotta be that whatever order we do everything it's a zero-sum gain. I mean if one's less efficient than the other then one is losing energy and where is the lost energy going?

At any rate. I've never been able to cool as quickly as you have so you might be right... but I'm sure not wrapping my head around it.

{*mumble... smaller volume... surface area... hrmmmm... volume is proportional to depth as the kettle is cylanderical but surface area is proportional to sides which is proportional to depth *PLUS* the base surface area which is the same for both so ... smaller volume => lesser depth => *more* surface area per volume than the larger volumes ... so smaller volume *does* cool faster because it has more square inches per gallon... and... hmm, maybe...}
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Old 06-24-2013, 02:17 AM   #29
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Lets not forget about latent heat of melting. It's a very important key here! I can assure you that 32f water can't cool nearly as well as 32f ice.

And Yooper is right. Probably the biggest effect is the heat flow from two media with disparate temperatures. It is very easy to cool from 212 to 200. Just turn off the burner. But cooling from 77 to 65, the "same" 12 degrees are suddenly very different.

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Old 06-24-2013, 02:19 AM   #30
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Also, because you are stirring, surface area is almost irrelevant.

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