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Old 08-09-2012, 02:51 PM   #1
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Default Adding LME twice - 2 hot breaks?

I brewed my second batch last night, an IPA kit. Palmer and another book I have both suggest doing the hop additions to low gravity boil. They both suggest adding half the LME initially, doing your hop additions and then adding the remaining LME in the last 15 minutes.

I tried this, but the second LME addition resulted in another hot break. I was doing a 3gal boil in a 7gal kettle. The hot break pushed a lot of the hop additions onto the sides of the kettle (out of the wort). This is potential issue #1. The hops are not in the wort for the full time on the recipe.

Issue #2 is that after I cooled the wort and poured it into the fermentor, there was no trub in the bottom of the kettle. In my first batch, there was a ton of sediment that was easy to prevent from pouring into the fermentor. In this batch I think the trub was spread out over the sides of the kettle. In hindsight I should have used a siphon, rather than pouring it. I think I got a bunch of trub in my fermentor.

Am I doing something wrong with the second LME addition? Anyone else do this with similar/different results? And, most importantly will the beer come out ok with all that trub in the fermentor? I think I will do a secondary on this one to help clarify it.

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Old 08-09-2012, 02:58 PM   #2
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I don't normally get any hot break with LME, but it's certainly possibly since you did! Next time, add the LME at flame out or thereabouts and you'll avoid any chance of scorching and/or a mess again.

Trub in the fermenter is fine- it'll all settle out in the end with the yeast cake and other crud.

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Old 08-09-2012, 03:46 PM   #3
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I'd say no problem, but check out this discussion:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/hot-break-cold-break-44609/

If we are saying the same thing, the hot break is good. IPAs have a lot of hops.

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Old 08-09-2012, 04:00 PM   #4
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I brewed my second batch last night, an IPA kit. Palmer and another book I have both suggest doing the hop additions to low gravity boil. They both suggest adding half the LME initially, doing your hop additions and then adding the remaining LME in the last 15 minutes.

I tried this, but the second LME addition resulted in another hot break. I was doing a 3gal boil in a 7gal kettle. The hot break pushed a lot of the hop additions onto the sides of the kettle (out of the wort). This is potential issue #1. The hops are not in the wort for the full time on the recipe.

Issue #2 is that after I cooled the wort and poured it into the fermentor, there was no trub in the bottom of the kettle. In my first batch, there was a ton of sediment that was easy to prevent from pouring into the fermentor. In this batch I think the trub was spread out over the sides of the kettle. In hindsight I should have used a siphon, rather than pouring it. I think I got a bunch of trub in my fermentor.

Am I doing something wrong with the second LME addition? Anyone else do this with similar/different results? And, most importantly will the beer come out ok with all that trub in the fermentor? I think I will do a secondary on this one to help clarify it.
No, I've had that happen when bringing the wort back up to a boil after a late LME add. I never get much of a break anyway with LME, so I wan't really concerned about it.
I have to second Yooper's suggestion of the flameout LME add over the late add, a lot easier. I've recently taken to adding all of the LME at flameout when I brew extract, only steeping grain tea and hops in the boil, add LME at knockout, stir to dissolve and let sit covered for ~10 mins (or until temp is ~190, whichever happens sooner). I've noticed a big improvement in my extract beers since doing this, they're closer to my AG brews, and it's gotten me brewing a lot more extract/grains batches!
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:28 PM   #5
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Thanks for the suggestions guys and gals! Nordeast, do you do a late addition with DME as well?

Regarding the trub in the fermentor - I did something foolish. Since there was no sediment, I poured the wort back and forth between the kettle and fermentor a couple of times to aerate...until noticing a ton of foam, presumably the trub. I spooned off as much as possible - there was a ton of foam - and then poured in the fermentor. Hopefully, comes out ok. Live and learn I suppose.

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Old 08-10-2012, 02:07 PM   #6
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Thanks for the suggestions guys and gals! Nordeast, do you do a late addition with DME as well?
Yep, same thing, at knockout. It's a lot harder to stir in that LME, but it works.

I wouldn't worry about trub in the fermenter, no biggie. Also, it's fine to aerate the way you did, it actually works quite well, and there's no need to worry about that foam.
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:04 PM   #7
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Yep, same thing, at knockout. It's a lot harder to stir in that LME, but it works.

I wouldn't worry about trub in the fermenter, no biggie. Also, it's fine to aerate the way you did, it actually works quite well, and there's no need to worry about that foam.
Thanks for the info! I will try that next time - adding DME/LME at knockout. I discarded the foam - for future reference, should I have kept it?
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:20 PM   #8
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Thanks for the info! I will try that next time - adding DME/LME at knockout. I discarded the foam - for future reference, should I have kept it?
Yeah, there's no need to discard or worry about the foam, it's just break material/proteins. Many people let the break material go all the way through to the fermenter with no issue.
As for the knockout extract add, I think you'll find that there's many benefits to this. I've noticed some improvements in my extract beers since I started adding extract at the end, mainly in fermentability and flavor. Even when using fresh extract, I always noticed a little flavor that I assume is what folks mean when they say "extract twang", just a little, caramel-y flavor that wasn't s'posed to be there. I also had a real hard time getting even lighter extract beers to finish below 1.016-18, which bothered me more than the flavor. Since I started the KO add, I've gotten better fermentability/lower FGs and haven't noticed any 'extract' type flavors. My last extract brew was a cream ale, all LME and some carapils (I know) and cara 10, finished at 1.011 and is insanely good. I enjoy my extract brews as much as my AG brews now, and I think a lot of it has to do with handling the extract properly, including not cooking/boiling it at all.
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:35 PM   #9
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Nordeast, so you add hops to water with only specialty grain sugar in it, if anything? So SG is near 1.0?

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Old 08-11-2012, 04:46 PM   #10
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Nordeast, so you add hops to water with only specialty grain sugar in it, if anything? So SG is near 1.0?
Yep, steep grains in a gal or so of water, add to kettle with water to hit ~3 gal, boil, hop, maybe hop some more, kill flame, add LME/DME to a good whirlpool, stir it in and let sit for ~10 mins or so before cooling. Never bother to check a pre boil grav on an extract batch, but it's gotta be near 1.000.
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it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Have you seen the price of ketchup lately? And I'm not talking Heinz.
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