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Old 04-27-2009, 08:29 PM   #1
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Default ? about yeast in bottles

I have made several batches of brew now and let me say super addictive hobby! When botteling beer to get it to carb is there anyway to not get yeast layer in the bottom? if so how do you get it to carb in a bottle? the mainstream beer manufactures filter and use a different process i suppose. Thanks in advance for your answers.

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Old 04-27-2009, 08:44 PM   #2
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We get this quite often from new brewers....I'm just going to post my info here for you. It's got some info for you and some tips, I have very little yeast in my bottles.....

CTRL-V

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMama View Post
Dont fear the yeast! The yeast is your friend, and really isnt a big deal.
This comes up a lot from new brewers, especially since we in the states have grown up with fizzy yellow DEAD BEER as opposed beer cultures where living beers (such as homebrew) are consumed...

Here's a rant I wrote on this subject, don't take it personal I'm not ranting at you....It just contains some info you might be able to use in your edumacation of you, your friends and family about "living beers."

Some homebrewers on here who make labels for the beers they give away usually have a note on it about living yeasts and pouring properly. IIRC, someone on here has a logo with a graphic on one of the side panels showing how to pour. If you are giving your beers away you might want to consider doing the same.

I wish I could recall who did it for the label.


Anyway here's the "rant." (like I said it was to someone else.)

Quote:
Drink bud....otherwise get used to it.

It's a fact of life when you make living beers. Unless you keg or force carb there needs to be living yeast in your beer to carb and conditiion.

Rather than try to avoid it you should relish in the fact that you have made REAL LIVING BEER as opposed to tasteless and processed commercial crap...It's not to be dreaded it's to be celebrated.

Learn to pour homebrew properly and get over it...

[youtube]xyXn4UBjQkE[/youtube]

The Belgians practically worship it, for all it's healthful benefits...



Think of carbing/conditioning as another (but tiny) fermentation, in a small (12, 16, or 22 ounce) carboy. The yeast converts the sugar (priming solution) to a miniscule amount of alcohol (not really enough to change the abv of the beer) and CO2...The CO2 builds up in the headspace, is trapped and is reabsorbed in the solution...

Most of the time we don't notice this, (except for new brewers who stare at their bottles then start a "wtf" thread) but depending on the yeast, a mini krauzen forms on top of the bottle, then it falls, like in your fermenter and that becomes the "sludge" at the bottom of the bottles. As it falls it also scrubs the beer clean of many off flavors on the way down.

This is very similar to the trub at the bottom of your fermenter, only obvioulsy much much smaller.

Now some yeast are more flocculant then others, also depending on some brewing things one may do, some beers have very little noticeable yeast at the bottom, either because it just din't form that much OR it wasn't very flocculant and it is still in solution.

A long primary helps tighten the cake in primary, as does crash cooling...Racking to a secondary, adding finings and crash cooling all affect how much yeast is in suspension in the beer to help carb it...Also the type of yeast will change the amount of apparant yeast in the bottom, or in solution...

Also chilling the bottles down for at least a week after the 3 weeks @ 70 will help make the beer clearer and pull the yeast down to the bottom.

When I bottle I always run the autosiphon once across the bottom of the fermenter to make sure I DO kick up enough yeast for carbonation.

A lot of my beers have very little yeast at the bottom of the bottle, some appear to not have any at all, even though they seem to carb up fine.

also remember SOME beers, like Hefes are supposed to be cloudy with suspended yeasts.

For me personally, sometimes I intentionally dump the yeast in my glass, other times I do the "pour to the shoulder" method, where you watch the yeast mover up to the shoulder of the beer, and stop pouring just as the yeast is about to come out...

Now as opposed to the OP that thinks filtered dead beers are better than real beers, here's a pretty comrehensive list of all the commercial beers that are bottle conditioned...it's not too up to date though...but it is impressive...this is what a lot of us who ACTUALLY BOTTLE HARVEST THE GLORIOUS YEASTS from beers to capture the strains, use as a rough reference...

Yeasts from Bottle Conditioned Beers


Now if you look at this list, and then compare it to the "clear beers" (meaning BMC) you will quickly see that the kind of beer the OP is referring to is actually in the minority..
See there are actually more commercial bottle conditioned WITH YEAST SEDIMENT in stores, in bottleshops, and in most of our fridges than there are dead and filtered beers...

I enter contests...and placed decently last summer....in fact the biggest comments I got this summer was on the CLARITY of my beer..one of my beers was describes as being jewell like...and ruby like...I believe it comes from the fact that I leave it in primary for a month..use finings to clear it, and give it a nice period of bottle conditioning, make sure I cool the wort quicky and chill long enough to eliminate haze..... In other words brew properly....

If you work on you beer process, AND pour properly yeast sediment is not really an issue...it's a tiny bit of beer left behind in the bottle where there is a glass of uber clear beer. There's no yeast in this beerglass of mine, what little there is is still in the bottle.



Even if you do decide to go the expensive route of some sort of filter setup, you are going to do what the BMC manufacturers end up doing, sacrificing flavor for the sake of comsetic clarity...you can't really filter the yeast out in such a way that lets all the complex flavors of your beers come through...so of those
proteins and other things that give you beer a freshness get filtered out too.

Hope this helps you be a better beer advocate!!!

We even had the telling your friends disccusion before...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danek View Post
FWIW I completely agree that educating people about bottle conditioned beers is a good thing, and have no qualms about doing that to my friends. But on the other hand, if a friend of a friend (or someone I didn't know but wanted to welcome to my house as a guest) came round, and the first conversation we had was me lecturing them on how to drink a beer, I would feel a bit of an uptight wanker. And much as I know that bottle-conditioned beer kicks ass, I'd still much rather not have to stand by the fridge checking that everyone was capable of operating a bottle of beer safely.
Who said you have to be an "uptight wanker" to educate?



I present to you;

Quote:

Yeastie Boyz

A one act play by Revvy

Cast
HB) = Homebrewer
G) = Guest.

Scene, a living room, G and HB are hanging out watching the game.

HB) Hey you wanna try one of my beers?

G) Sure

HB grabs bottle, glass and bottle opener. Proceeds to open and pour beer properly.

HB) I dunno if you know this, but as opposed to BMC's this beer and most micro brews are alive?

G)Huh? Wha?

HB) They're still alive. See the macroswill makers pretty much kill their beers so they last on the shelf. They pasturize them and filter out the yeast, and to me, most of the flavor...that's why I like to brew, and like to go to brewpubs and stuff.

But these beers, and ones like Rogue, and Bell's don't filter, in fact the yeast is still in the bottle and that's how the beer gets carbonated.

B) Really?

HB holds up bottle to the light, showing the dregs.

HB) Yeah, see this stuff at the bottom? That's the yeast....notice how clear your beer is? If I had poured it in you beer it would have been cloudy, but I poured the beer til this stuff got to the shoulder of the bottle, leaving it behind.

HB knocks back the yeast dregs.

Actually the stuffs really good for you it's full of vitamin b and stuff. Sometimes I don't bother leaving it behind and just dump it in the bottle. And some beers like Wheats are meant to be cloudy with suspended yeast. There's different types of beer yeasts, and they give beers different tastes. Some yeast give the beer the flavor of Banana, or cloves.

Or like this beer here the yeast gives it this quality (Hb describes the yeast in the beer guest is drinking.) Can you taste it?

Some of us homebrewers actually capture the yeast from some of the beers, and grow our own cultures with them. Some are really awesome and hard to get.

G)Wow, I didn't know you knew so much about this stuff...cool.

HB) Thanks, didja know that the yeasts are so important to the Belgian brewers that guard their yeast like it was fort knox? Some of them take it so seriously that they actually filter out the strain they fermented with, and then replace it with a different one to bottle carb and condition them? They actually take out one strain (like the BMC'ers do) BUT they still add yeast at bottling time...it's that important to them.

G) What?

HB) Yeah and brewers and even some homebrewers who go to Belgian, actually try to steal samples of the yeast.

G) No ****?

HB) Yeah it's pretty wild, huh? Hey you wanna try another of my beers, maybe a wheat or a belgian that has a really yeasty character?

G) Yeah sure.

HB hands G a bottle, class and bottle openner

HB)Ok dude, I showed you how to pour to the shoulder of the bottle, so why don't you give it a try?

G) Cool! So will you teach me how to brew sometime?

HB) Yeah, I'm brewing this weekend, come on by Sat. Morning.
Smiles knowing he's converted another one to the 'darkside.'

G) SO can I make a beer like bud lite?

HB smacks G over the head with beer bottle

The End

(Just kidding about the last part)

I have very, very very little sediment in the bottom of mine, using the methods I mentioned above.


Remember Yeast is your friend!
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Old 04-27-2009, 08:45 PM   #3
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lol found the answer thanks anyhow guys, bottle from a keg!

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Old 04-27-2009, 09:51 PM   #4
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Bottling from a keg is really not the best solution, unless you used the keg as your secondary and are using one of those fancy shmancy plate filters. Bottling from a keg--after the beer has been conditioned--will most likely oxygenate your beer, giving it an astringent taste.

The Belgian thing about how they covet the layer of yeast at the bottom of the bottle has been brought up a few times on this thread--and you'll even notice that many American "craft" brews also have a layer of yeast at the bottom of the bottle. For me, I'm a little bummed if I don't see a little yeast in the bottle.

One of the best practices is to use caution when siphoning from the primary to leave as much trub behind.

Since the majority of the yeast will actually stick to the bottom of the bottle if conditioned properly, the layer of sediment you're seeing--if there's a significant amount--may not actually be yeast, but rather trub.

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Old 04-27-2009, 10:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abrew4me View Post
Bottling from a keg is really not the best solution, unless you used the keg as your secondary and are using one of those fancy shmancy plate filters. Bottling from a keg--after the beer has been conditioned--will most likely oxygenate your beer, giving it an astringent taste.
This is not entirely true. If you bottle from a keg, and drink the beer in a reasonable amount of time, you are not going pick up off-flavors from oxidation.

Many people around here (including myself) bottle from a keg with no problems. I have kept bottles from a keg without noticing off-flavors for a few months.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abrew4me View Post
Bottling from a keg is really not the best solution, unless you used the keg as your secondary and are using one of those fancy shmancy plate filters. Bottling from a keg--after the beer has been conditioned--will most likely oxygenate your beer, giving it an astringent taste.
Everything in this quote is inaccurate. Just thought I'd point that out.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:03 PM   #7
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Real beer has yeast in it. That's all you need to know, really.

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Old 04-27-2009, 11:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llazy_llama View Post
Everything in this quote is inaccurate. Just thought I'd point that out.
How is everything inaccurate? Please elaborate.

Jeez, I'm here as a premium member for less than a day and I have some kid who has been of legal drinking age for less time than I've been brewing calling me out.

If you bottle from a keg, after it has been conditioned, you WILL oxidize your brew. I don't care what kind of beer it is or for how long it has been conditioned; it will be oxidized. Will it be more clear? Yes! Will it taste the same over time? NO!

If you use the keg as the secondary, prime with sugar or by kräusening and then pass the brew through a plate filter (fancy shmancy or not) under low pressure into bottles then both the concern with clarity and oxygenating the beer will be removed.

OR, just be more careful while siphoning and be happy with the lovey layer of goodness at the bottle of the bottle.
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:44 PM   #9
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How is everything inaccurate? Please elaborate.
If you purge the bottles with co2, then use a counterpressure filler, the beer is LESS oxygenated than simply bottling the regular way. You're pushing the carbed beer with co2, and putting it into a co2 enriched place. It shouldn't be exposed to o2. Then you cap it.

Now, if you're talking about opening a tap, and letting the beer flow and then sticking a cap on it, you'd be correct.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abrew4me View Post
How is everything inaccurate? Please elaborate.

Jeez, I'm here as a premium member for less than a day and I have some kid who has been of legal drinking age for less time than I've been brewing calling me out.

If you bottle from a keg, after it has been conditioned, you WILL oxidize your brew. I don't care what kind of beer it is or for how long it has been conditioned; it will be oxidized. Will it be more clear? Yes! Will it taste the same over time? NO!

If you use the keg as the secondary, prime with sugar or by kräusening and then pass the brew through a plate filter (fancy shmancy or not) under low pressure into bottles then both the concern with clarity and oxygenating the beer will be removed.

OR, just be more careful while siphoning and be happy with the lovey layer of goodness at the bottle of the bottle.
Sorry, I probably have been of legal drinking age for a lot longer than llama and maybe even youy and I also beg to differ, the purpose of a Beer gun, either the blickman or the bamf, is to prevent oxygenation of the beer, it is no different that the bottling wand those of us who bottle us, it fills the bottles from a tube, from the bottom up. And since the beer is carbonated from the keg it is blanket in co2 and that Co2 is, along with the filling form the bottom, pushing any oxygen out of the bottle ahead of it, in effect purging the bottle, so ther really is little chance of oxygenating the beer....if done carefully and properly.

I think the OP has the typical noobish and BMC driven aversion to bottle condiioned and yeasty beer, and as soon as he looks at the list I linked to and realize that a vast majority of real commercial microbrews has yeast in the bottles Like Belgians) he'll grow out of it...

But having said that, there's no point in you giving innaccurate information and secondly being rude to a fellow member who sought simply to correct you, (and not in as rude a way as you responded back to him)...Although he may be younger than you, llama's brewing acumen, experience and knowledge is quite high, as his dedication to helping educate people on here...I respect his information and advice immensely......
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