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Old 01-24-2010, 01:31 AM   #1
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Default Is a 100 billion cell count lager yeast smack pack big enough to not us a starter?

Is a 100 billion cell count lager yeast smack pack big enough to not us a starter?

I have a WyEast 2206 Bavarian Lager Yeast smack pack. It says it has 100 billion cells.

Should I make a starter?
Do I pitch @ 55 degrees? (the package says to pitch @ 70-75 until fermentation starts and then cool to 55???)

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Old 01-24-2010, 01:43 AM   #2
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www.mrmalty.com - you need more yeast. Probably about 4 or 5 times what you have.

We don't know what your OG is, and I'm assuming you are pitching into 5 gallons of wort.

I'd pitch at the ferment temp. Some people pitch colder & then allow things to warm up. IF you're not going to bother making a starter, pitching hot will help you get the yeast going quicker, but it will also lead to some off-flavors.

Good luck with it.
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Old 01-24-2010, 02:00 AM   #3
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And if you don't believe mrmalty or XXguy, see http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices. She says you are under pitching 100 fold (but that was before Yeast increased the size).

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Old 01-24-2010, 02:28 AM   #4
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According to WyEast, the smack pack is enough to acheive 6 million cells per mL if you are pitching warm and then cooling to fermentation temp. However, if you pitching at fermentation temp, 2 smack packs will be enought to acheive 12 million cell per mL.

The lager that I am doing will be around 1.050 and I plan to pitch @ fermentation temp. So, they say to pitch 1L of slurry to 1 hL(hectoliter).

hL = 26.42 gallons

So, 250 mL (2 smack packs) of slurry is sufficient to target 12 million cells per mL. Or, in simpler terms, each smack pack contains 100 billion cells. So, if you pitch twice that, 200,000,000,000 cells and there are 18927 mL in 5 gallons....

200,000,000,000 / 18927 = 10566914.989168912136101865060496 cells per mL

They also state on there site that by pitching to large, you can cause problems as well.

Here is the pitch rate chart from their site. (bbl = hL) There is a lot of good information on there site actually. They even tell you how to harvest your yeast to save $.

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Old 01-24-2010, 02:39 AM   #5
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make a starter. 2 liters. lagers need a lot of yeast

"pitching too large" would be pitching like 50 smack packs.

Talking to a local micro, their pithing rate is 1 gallon of slurry per bbl they brew.

if you do just pitch the smack pack, please keep us informed, as I'd be interested to see how it turns out

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Old 01-24-2010, 02:42 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf View Post
And if you don't believe mrmalty or XXguy, see http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices. She says you are under pitching 100 fold (but that was before Yeast increased the size).

-a.
This is straight from your link. I think the WyEast 50mL packets they are talking about are the WyEast propagator packs where they state that a 3 step starter should be made for a typical 1.050 lager pitched warm.

Quote:
What does this mean in plain English. A 5 gallon fermentation contains approximately 20,000 ml. This means that for 1.050 gravity ale you would need to add between 120 billion (20,000 ml x 6 million cells/ml) and 200 billion cells (20,000 ml x 10 million cells/ml).
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Last edited by impatient; 01-24-2010 at 02:48 AM.
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Old 01-24-2010, 02:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motobrewer View Post
make a starter. 2 liters. lagers need a lot of yeast

"pitching too large" would be pitching like 50 smack packs.

Talking to a local micro, their pithing rate is 1 gallon of slurry per bbl they brew.

if you do just pitch the smack pack, please keep us informed, as I'd be interested to see how it turns out
I plan on pitching 2 smack packs or 200 billion cells as recommended by WyEast.

I have pitched 1 smack pack on an ale with excellent results.
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:05 AM   #8
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1: What are you making, whats the OG?
2: Make a starter with ALL liquid yeasts. What is the date on the packet?

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Old 01-24-2010, 03:15 AM   #9
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1: What are you making, whats the OG?
Amber lager
7 lbs 2-Row
.5 lb Crystal 60
.5 Mt Hood 60, .5 20, .5 10
2206 Bavarian Lager Yeast
? 1.050 fly sparged

2: Make a starter with ALL liquid yeasts. What is the date on the packet?
2 wyeast 2206 activator (smack pack) 100 billion cells, 125 mL
MFG 11JAN10, MFG 24DEC09

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Old 01-24-2010, 04:42 AM   #10
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You need a gallon starter MINIMUM for that beer

Dont pitch that yeast anywhere close to 60 let alone 70
50 is best

Remember this
Wyeast is in the business of selling yeast
We're all just here to help

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