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-   -   Waiting to Start. (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/waiting-start-3244/)

Orfy 10-30-2005 11:14 AM

Waiting to Start.
 
All of my Brews have started well before 24 hours. I've just done a John Bull Master Class Porter, no messing about I wanted to see what an Extract only Kit tastes like. All my others I've added Hops and steeped with grain.
I dehydrated the yeast with a little sugar and after an hour it had bubbles and foam on top.
This has not started fermenting yet and it's been 24 hrs at 67f. Do I repitch or wait?

seanhagerty 10-30-2005 11:21 AM

Give it another day. You might try swirling the fermenter to get the yeast resupended. When you swirl it you may see some bubbling in your airlock. This means your yeast has started producing CO2, just not enough yet for it to start the airlock to bubbling.

Did you make a starter with this batch? If not, try to get into the habit of always making a starter. It will significantly reduce your start times.

Good Luck

Orfy 10-30-2005 11:24 AM

I did a rehydration with sugar, not sure if that could be classed as a starter.
If I'm not mistaken a starter needs to be done at least a day or so before and is almost like a mini brew.

david_42 10-30-2005 12:56 PM

Give it time. This is the growth stage and the fact that it hasn't switched to creating CO2 means the yeast are still multiplying. 67F is probably a little cool for this stage, most ale yeasts grow best around 70-75. My barley wine took about 48 hours to get started at 74F. And after 50 batches, I still keep checking the bubbler!

Higher gravities means the yeast has to burn more energy maintaining themselves against the osmotic pressure of the high sugar concentration. That leaves less for growth.

Yeast population doubles every two hours under optimum conditions, so even four to six hours can help. Use malt instead of sugar. Since they are alive, starting them on sugar means they have to "switch gears" when you pitch them. Not a major problem, but it would cost you a doubling period.

Once the ferment is going, I adjust the temp.

Truble 10-30-2005 01:24 PM

FWIW- My first batch was extract and hops. I used dry yeast as well. I rehydrated and proffed immediately before pitching, and used only the pour into the primary to aerate. That batch took just over 24 hours to start jumping. With the batch I brewed last night, I rehydated and proofed the yeast almost 2 hours prior to pitching. When I poured from the boiler, I put it through 2 collinders, fine and coarse, as it went into the bucket (this was mainly to trap grains and hops from the steeping and boil). After measuring OG, I pitched and capped, and shook the h3ll out of the bucket. that was at 11pm. at 6 am this morning, it was a bubbling fool.

In short, my first batch acted like yours is. I am drinking it now, and it came out great. I think the extra proof time, the collinders and the heavy shaking helped get my second batch jumping quicker by providing a good aeration for the yeast. I will add it to my repitoire in the future.

Denny's Evil Concoctions 10-30-2005 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orfy
I dehydrated the yeast with a little sugar and after an hour it had bubbles and foam on top.


Did you leave the yeast in water for at least 15 minutes before adding the sugar? If not then the cell walls of the yeast were not yet strong enough to keep the sugar molecules out. This can cause some of the yeast to explode (die).

You'll probably be fine in another day since there are millions of yeast cells in a package. They take about 24hrs to double in population, so your wort may just need time for the yeast to get up to proper numbers.

What Yeast did you use?

If in doubt rehydrate another pack in water for 15 minutes THEN stir (not before), then add to fermenter.

Another usefull thing is to aerate your wort before pitching your yeast (on your intitial pitch not after). Even though many packs say it is not required, you will have a more vigorous fermentation. Yeast really like Oxygen in the first 24 hrs. They don't need it after that.

For my strong ale (OG 1.091) I aerated again around hour 14 (optimal need for Oxygen) and my beer finished in 6 days to 1.014.

Check out:
http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/beerfaq.html
http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/fortnightyeast.html

Good Luck!
Denny

ScottT 10-31-2005 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orfy
All of my Brews have started well before 24 hours. I've just done a John Bull Master Class Porter, no messing about I wanted to see what an Extract only Kit tastes like. All my others I've added Hops and steeped with grain.
I dehydrated the yeast with a little sugar and after an hour it had bubbles and foam on top.
This has not started fermenting yet and it's been 24 hrs at 67f. Do I repitch or wait?

Orfy, was the yeast foaming when you pitched it? If you were using the yeast that came with the kit, it may have been old. If it was foaming, was your wort too hot? It needs to be less than 80 degrees F.

Last thing and forgive me for the rant:

Make a starter, Make a starter, Make a starter! It's not that much trouble and will ensure a quick start.

I bottled a batch of wee heavy on Friday evening. I kept the tube of White Labs WLP023 in my pocket while bottling to get it warmed up. I cooked up a starter wort with just DME and water at the same time I was cooking up my priming solution using DME and water (separate boils). I let the starter flask cool while bottling pitched the yeast in after bottling and gave it a good shake. It was foaming away within 1 hour. I brewed on Saturday, pitched the very active starter into my cooled wort at 6:00 pm that evening with my wort at 75 F. I peeked in at it at 11:00 pm and it already had a 1/2 inch of krausen on it and was bubbling away temp was 72 F. This evening, itís literally churning. With yeast traveling up and down at a rapid clip. Temp is 68 F. This batch is an ordinary bitter with an OG of only 1.036. I figure she'll be done in only 3 days. When the krausen drops out, I'll transfer to a secondary, maybe only 1 week there, and on to the keg. I'll be drinking this one by Thanksgiving (end of November)

All this just to say, in the words of Ronald Regan, "Trust but Verify", make sure your yeast will get the job done before you brew. Why risk a contaminated batch. Why delay your consumption date. Why leave a controllable variable unknown?

Orfy 10-31-2005 04:02 PM

Thanks,

Okay, so it's 48 hours, I swirled after 36 and still no movement in an airlock.

So I've done a starter, 2 packs of dried yeast. I had no extract opened so I used water and brewing sugar.
I did a glass of boiled water left it to cool to 75f and added the yeast, left it to hydrate then mixed it.
In the mean time I did 2/3 of a gallon of water with added brewing sugar.
I left this to cool to the same temprature as the yeast then added the yeast. I then left it. It's now 3 hours and doing nicely.

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4403/starter2us.jpg

Questions....

Next time I do it how much brew sugar should I add to a half gallon starter?
How long do I leave i?
How much do I need to put in my 5 gallon non starting batch?
Do I mix the stuff at the bottom of the starter before pitching?
Can I use some of it for my next brew?
Does it need to be refrigerated?

God Emporer BillyBrew 10-31-2005 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottT

Make a starter, Make a starter, Make a starter! It's not that much trouble and will ensure a quick start.

Can you make a starter with dry yeast? I've seen plenty about doing one with liquid yeast, but never with dry.

Orfy 10-31-2005 04:12 PM

I hope so, I've just attempted it!


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