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Old 06-21-2010, 02:18 PM   #1
wooderson
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Default Vegetal/Celery flavor in an ESB

I recently made an ESB that has a very vegetal/celery like off flavor in the aftertaste. What could be the cause of this?

Recipe:

3 lbs light dme
1 lb wheat dme
1.5 lbs crystal 60
1 oz Styrian Goldings @ 60 min
3 oz Styrian Goldings @ 15 min
S-04 Yeast

OG - 1.037
FG - 1.011

2 weeks in primary @ 62 degrees 2 weeks in secondary @ 62 degrees cold crashed 4 days @ 38 degrees force carbed in the keg

The beer tastes fine until swallowed and then the celery drapes on you like a wet blanket.

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Old 06-21-2010, 02:54 PM   #2
permo
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I had an ESB that I used S-04 fermented at 62 degrees turn out bad as well. I had a wierd, off flavor that I couldn't but my finger on, but it didn't quite taste right.

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Old 06-21-2010, 03:33 PM   #3
mojotele
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Here's what Palmer says about "grassy" off-flavors:

Quote:
Flavors reminiscent of chlorophyll and fresh cut grass occasionally occur and are most often linked to poorly stored ingredients. Poorly stored malt can pick up moisture and develop musty smells. Aldehydes can form in old malt and can contribute green grass flavors. Hops are another source of these green flavors. If the hops are poorly stored or not properly dried prior to storage, the chlorophyll compounds will become evident in the beer.
Could this celery-like flavor be described as grassy? Do you think any of what Palmer states applies to you?
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:49 PM   #4
KingBrianI
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My guess is that it's the 3 oz of styrian goldings at 15 minutes. Thats a big flavor addition. I made a beer with a lot of late challenger hops once and it had a strong asparagus flavor that sounds similar to what you're describing.

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Old 06-21-2010, 05:03 PM   #5
mojotele
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBrianI View Post
My guess is that it's the 3 oz of styrian goldings at 15 minutes. Thats a big flavor addition. I made a beer with a lot of late challenger hops once and it had a strong asparagus flavor that sounds similar to what you're describing.
+1 on this. I didn't even look at the amount of hops added, only the type.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:30 PM   #6
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Could it be DMS, too? I'm assuming you didn't cover the wort while it boiled.

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Old 06-21-2010, 10:18 PM   #7
wooderson
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The off flavor is certainly not grassy. It's celery.

I did not boil with the lid on plus I am under the impression that dms is not a concern with malt extract anyways.

The hop addition could explain it as I've never used Goldings before to know what they contribute.

The beer is based off of a recipe in this thread about Honker's Ale.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/need-help-refining-honkers-ale-clone-recipe-96691/index3.html#post1217281

Post #25 suggests the large 15 minute addition and the thread is old enough that if others have followed this advice none have reported back about a vegetal flavor as a result.

I'm at a loss. This beer is coming up on six weeks in the keg and the off flavor hasn't diminished at all. This one is coming closer and closer to going down the drain.

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Old 06-23-2010, 01:28 AM   #8
rayg
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The particular character of the vegetal flavor is due
to the type of hop but any vegetal/grassy flavor is
usually due to excess hops, that's one of the advantages
of using high %aa hops: fewer leaves. If you take
out the bitter/flavor/aroma components of hops, what's
left is green leaves. If you boil a lot of green leaves in
water you will get a vegetal taste. I got it when I used
a lot of low %aa Fuggles in a batch.

Ray

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Old 09-12-2010, 10:05 PM   #9
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hi guys.

found this thread after googling for "fuggles hops celery". I might be able to shed a little light on this:

I recently (5 days ago) transferred an IPA I've been brewing to secondary, which on tasting the sample from the hydrometer flask had absolutely no kind of celery taste to it. I threw two ounces of fuggles pellets in the secondary to dry-hop the brew, and now it has a hint (not masses, just a hint) of celery in the aftertaste. I was worried it was an infection or something, but after reading this I'm fairly sure the fuggles were the culprit. I'm guessing that the fuggles weren't properly stored (they came to me from the LHBS in a non-airtight clear plastic bag, which probably should have rang alarm bells). I shan't be buying those again (the full-flower variety from the same place comes in a vacuum packed bag and costs a pittance more, so I'll just go with that from now).

hth.

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Old 09-12-2010, 10:06 PM   #10
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oh and fwiw, I'm not throwing out this brew. Still plenty good for my newbie efforts.

I'm also thinking that late additions in the brew might be roughly equivalent to dry-hopping, in the sense of "less alpha-acid, more high notes". This celery note definitely falls in the latter category.

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