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Old 12-11-2009, 12:17 AM   #1
JimE
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Default Substituting Ingredients in My Next Beer Recipe

Hey,

I'm new to home brewing. My fist beer, an extract kit of Belgian Tripel is in the fermenter. Thinking ahead, I chose my next recipe: Whitey's Gone Fising Pail Ale, from The Complete Joy of Home Brewing. This is advertised as a flavorful ale with great drinkability.

The recipe for 5 gallons follows:
6.6 lbs. light malt extract syrup
1 oz. Amarillo hops (boiling): 8HBU (225 MBU)
3/4 oz. French Strisselspalt hops (flavor)
1/2 oz. Sterling hips (aroma)
English-style ale yeast
3/4 c. corn sugar (for bottling)

O.G.: 1.046-1.050
F. G.: 1.010-1.014
Bitterness: 27 IBU

I went to the LHBS to buy ingredients for this recipe. 2 substitutions were made:

1) Instead of the 6.6 lbs. of light LME, I bought 6 lbs. of Muntons plain light DME. Is this an equal substitution? Do I need to get more DME?

2) Instead of French spalt hops, I bought German spalt hops (LHBS was out of the French). Is this an equal substitution?

Also, I have Fermentis Safbrew s-33 dry yeast. My LHBS suggested this as an alternative to the Nottingham yeast, which I used before. He said it finished just a little less dry than the Nottingham. Any thoughts on this yeast?

Any thoughts on this recipe?

Jim

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Old 12-11-2009, 12:08 PM   #2
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I found an answer out on the net for the DME for LME substitution:

LME to DME * 0.89
DME to LME * 1.10

And for those that want to convert to an all grain:
1lb Base grain = 0.67lb DME = 0.75lb LME

Do these values seem right to you?

My substitution of DME for LME (6.0 lbs for 6.6 lbs) should be fine. (The formula above says I should use 5.874 lbs DME)

I'm still interested in your thoughts on the recipe, the hop substitution and and my yeast choice.

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Old 12-14-2009, 01:42 PM   #3
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(1) All your numbers are correct rules of thumb.

(2) I'd urge you to move away from dry yeast before too long. You'll wind up with a much greater control over your final product because of the larger selection of liquid yeasts. That said, S-33 is fine, and produces what I think of as an "english" taste. It doesn't flocculate well, so make sure you add Irish Moss or gelatin in order to clarify.

(3) Kudos on getting started with a Belgian Tripel! That certainly requires patience.

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Old 12-14-2009, 01:43 PM   #4
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Oh, also - the taste difference between French and German spalt is noticeable (to me) if you try them one after another, but otherwise I wouldn't even be aware of the difference.

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Old 12-16-2009, 12:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pericles View Post
(1)(2) I'd urge you to move away from dry yeast before too long. You'll wind up with a much greater control over your final product because of the larger selection of liquid yeasts. That said, S-33 is fine, and produces what I think of as an "english" taste. It doesn't flocculate well, so make sure you add Irish Moss or gelatin in order to clarify.
I can't wait for this tripel to be ready! I read at the Fermentis website that S-33 is there yeast to use for a Belgian or Trappist ale. I was kind of hoping for that slight citrus taste of Belgians. I was actually hoping for a Belgian blonde, but she wasn't interested. What are the qualities of a yeast that give it an "English" taste. I guess I'm asking what an "English" yeast tastes like.
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Old 12-16-2009, 02:46 PM   #6
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I'll agree with Pericles to a certain extent.

First your numbers are indeed close enough for government work. Second, Tripel is a really cool style, and I wish you success with it.

Third, yeast. There might never be a need to move away from dry yeast. You have just as much control over your beer with dry yeast as you have with liquid. It's a matter of what you like best and what you want your ingredients to do.

Yeast contribute as much as any other ingredient (sometimes more) to the flavor profile of a beer. Belgian styles are famous in that regard - the thing that makes Belgian beers Belgian is the yeast.

That's where dry yeasts generally fall down. There is not (yet) a good dry Belgian yeast except, arguably, Brewferm Blanche. S-33 is certainly not a good substitute. It might be as close as you're going to get in Fermentis's portfolio, but it's still a far, far cry from a true Belgian yeast.

There are a couple dozen excellent liquid Belgian yeasts, however.

For your Pail Ale, S-33 might do nicely. I'd have advised S-05 (American Ale) instead of an English yeast, but that's just me.

"English" flavors are usually taken as subtle fruit, like a hint of Juicyfruit, along with perhaps a touch of butterscotch. Not as fruity and flowery as Belgian ales, and not as "clean" as American ales. If you taste a Fuller's ESB alongside Mendocino Red Tail Ale and Corsendonk, you'll have a start on understanding some of the yeast-imparted flavors.

As to this statement:

Quote:
It doesn't flocculate well, so make sure you add Irish Moss or gelatin in order to clarify.
Irish Moss will do nothing at all to help yeast settle. Irish Moss is a kettle coagulant which coagulates and precipitates excess malt proteins in the kettle; it is thus a waste of time in most extract beers.

Gelatin in the secondary will help settle yeast. So will patience and time. But, if you're like most new brewers, you can't wait to drink the fruits of your labours, gelatin will speed up the clarification process.

Good luck!

Bob
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Old 12-17-2009, 12:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Irish Moss will do nothing at all to help yeast settle. Irish Moss is a kettle coagulant which coagulates and precipitates excess malt proteins in the kettle; it is thus a waste of time in most extract beers.

Gelatin in the secondary will help settle yeast. So will patience and time. But, if you're like most new brewers, you can't wait to drink the fruits of your labours, gelatin will speed up the clarification process.
Bob is right, I'm wrong. I was thinking gelatin when I wrote Irish Moss.

Quote:
You have just as much control over your beer with dry yeast as you have with liquid.
When I say you have more control using liquid yeast, I mean that there is - in my experience anyway - a larger variety of liquid yeasts, which will allow you to be truer to the style you're trying to create. That's why Bob and I agree that . . .

Quote:
There is not (yet) a good dry Belgian yeast except, arguably, Brewferm Blanche. S-33 is certainly not a good substitute. It might be as close as you're going to get in Fermentis's portfolio, but it's still a far, far cry from a true Belgian yeast.
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob View Post
For your Pail Ale, S-33 might do nicely. I'd have advised S-05 (American Ale) instead of an English yeast, but that's just me.

"English" flavors are usually taken as subtle fruit, like a hint of Juicyfruit, along with perhaps a touch of butterscotch. Not as fruity and flowery as Belgian ales, and not as "clean" as American ales. If you taste a Fuller's ESB alongside Mendocino Red Tail Ale and Corsendonk, you'll have a start on understanding some of the yeast-imparted flavors.
I do like the "clean" taste of American Ale; I like the taste of English Ale; and I like the taste of Belgian Ale. I guess I'm covered!

I'm in no rush to taste the pale ale. I have 2 cases of Chianti, 2.5 cases of Malbec, and I'm bottling two cases of that Belgian Tripel! Oh yeah, I've got a six-pack of Bell's Pale Ale. I think I can give my pale ale some time!

Thanks Pericles and Bob for you posts!

I'll hang on too the Irish moss. I'll use it sooner or later.

Jim
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