Question on Steeping Specialty Grains - not volume

brtisbuck · 01-25-2012, 08:01 PM

I am working on my first recipe creation for an extract brew using light DME as a base plus steeping grains. I am concocting a variation of a brew that uses Carastan, Crystal 75, and Munich (not necessarily in that order) on the grain bill. My plan was to steep 1# Munich, .5#Crystal 75, and .5# Carastan and then complete my wort with 7lbs light DME. I then read somewhere that Munich needs to be mashed which I am not familiar with. Can I use that? Do I need to substitute it? I'm not completely sure what each grain brings to the table or what they will add collectively. I've done all extract kits, some with and some without steeping grains. I understand the base DME and LME and what they bring to the table and how to balance with IBU's and the hop schedule. Any advice would be appreciated.

**Yooper** · 01-25-2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brtisbuck

I am working on my first recipe creation for an extract brew using light DME as a base plus steeping grains. I am concocting a variation of a brew that uses Carastan, Crystal 75, and Munich (not necessarily in that order) on the grain bill. My plan was to steep 1# Munich, .5#Crystal 75, and .5# Carastan and then complete my wort with 7lbs light DME. I then read somewhere that Munich needs to be mashed which I am not familiar with. Can I use that? Do I need to substitute it? I'm not completely sure what each grain brings to the table or what they will add collectively. I've done all extract kits, some with and some without steeping grains. I understand the base DME and LME and what they bring to the table and how to balance with IBU's and the hop schedule. Any advice would be appreciated.

Sure, you can use those grains. You're right, Munich malt must be mashed but mashing is "steeping with precision", so to speak.

What I mean is this- use 1.5-2 quarts of water per pound of grain. So, with 2 pounds of grain, use 3-4 quarts of water. Bring that to 160, and turn off the flame. Add the bag of grains, and stir well to thoroughly wet them. Stir some more, and make sure that the grain is in the water (use a tall thin pot if you have to). Check the temperature again, to make sure it's 150-160 degrees, and cover and let sit for 45 minutes.

In the meantime, have your brewpot nearby, and bring up your boil volume to 170 degrees or so. After the 45 minute mash is over, lift up the grain bag and put it in the 170 degree water, "teabagging" it to get out the flavors and colors. Then throw the grains away, and combine the first liquid into the pot and bring it to a boil and proceed as normal.

brtisbuck · 01-25-2012, 08:24 PM

Thank you. That is insightful. At the same time I am still a little confused. I have plugged this recipe into Beersmith and TastyBrew's site and recieved different results as far a OG. Especially on Tastybrew when I switch the grains from steep to mash it rises considerably. How much different is it really in effect on gravity from a 30 min steep held @ 150* and a "mash" as you describe the process?

**Yooper** · 01-25-2012, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brtisbuck

Thank you. That is insightful. At the same time I am still a little confused. I have plugged this recipe into Beersmith and TastyBrew's site and recieved different results as far a OG. Especially on Tastybrew when I switch the grains from steep to mash it rises considerably. How much different is it really in effect on gravity from a 30 min steep held @ 150* and a "mash" as you describe the process?

It's a big difference- as with a steep, you don't get conversion of the starches into sugars. A couple of pounds of grain really isn't all that significant in the great scheme, as you're using extract for the bulk of the fermentables. But there is a difference.

brtisbuck · 01-25-2012, 11:12 PM

I see. That makes some sense. What does the steep give you other than color if not gravity? If they are so similar in process, but so different in result I'm not sure I see the point of a steep

dumptruck81 · 01-26-2012, 12:36 AM

If I understand correctly steeping will add flavor with some grains but some grains require mashing to get the flavor.

**Yooper** · 01-26-2012, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumptruck81

If I understand correctly steeping will add flavor with some grains but some grains require mashing to get the flavor.

No, that's not exactly correct. Steeping will give you color and flavor, while mashing will give you some fermentable sugars AND color and flavor.

brtisbuck · 01-26-2012, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yooper

No, that's not exactly correct. Steeping will give you color and flavor, while mashing will give you some fermentable sugars AND color and flavor.

So where is the fine line between steep and mash?

**Yooper** · 01-26-2012, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brtisbuck

So where is the fine line between steep and mash?

It's the type of grains, and the prescribed amount of water and temperature for a certain time. Crystal malt is "pre mashed" so to speak, so it can be steeped. But Munich malt, amber malt, biscuit malt, and so on must be mashed to get anything out of it.

Calder · 01-26-2012, 01:17 AM

Steeping grains, in lot of water, basically rinses out any sugars that are in the grains, some color, and some flavor. These sugars are created by processing the grains at high temperatures, and are mostly (but not completely) unfermentable. Typically you might get 15 points per lb from crystal malts, and 10 from darker roasted grains. Because these malts have been processed at high temperatures, the enzymes have been killed and cannot convert the starches the grains contain. Some grains (example Munich and 2-row) contain no sugars, only starches, so need to be mashed.

Mashing grains (in a small amount of water) uses a base malt to provide the enzymes, for example Munich, or 2-row. Different malts will have more enzymes than others. When mashing, these enzymes get released into the water, and go in search of the starches and convert them to sugars. If you have too much water, the enzymes will have a harder job connecting with the starches, and the grain will not convert.

In mashing, most grains (even crystal and roast) have the potential for providing between 30 and 36 points per lb, which is a lot more than you can get from steeping. Typically you hear about mash efficiency; that is how efficient 'your' system is in extracting sugars from the mash. 75% is pretty typical; 75% of 36 points = 27 points.

When I talk about points, it is the amount of sugar you get relative to the gravity it would give in 1 gallon. 27 points would give a gravity of 1.027 in 1 gallon of water, 10 points would give a gravity of 1.010.

Sorry his is long. Hope it helps.