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Old 03-20-2010, 02:16 PM   #11
b33risGOOD
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From what I have heard it wont be sweet, unless the guy who sold it to me lied. Which i dont think he would have.

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Old 03-20-2010, 03:00 PM   #12
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Manufactures have two objectives in marketing their canned kits, making the price appealing and the process easy. Sugar cuts the price and fermenting at higher temperatures speeds the process. Unfortunately this results in the cidery, thin and solventy flavors your hear about in grandpa's old homebrew.

My understanding is that these kits are popular in Canada because the price of beer is so high and it's hard to obtain proper ingredients. I can understand that but I think you'll get a little more respect as a homebrewer if you avoid the prohibition methods.

You've got a couple popular canned kit brewers in Canada that mistake their lack of respect from people on forums like this one because they brew from a canned kit. I don't see that being the case, it's the method they chose to brew with that kit.

If that's your fancy that's cool and there's a lot of people happy brewing that way.

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Old 03-20-2010, 10:35 PM   #13
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well to set the record straight, I went in there planning to use DME, but the guy only had dark and amber DME. I wanted pale, and the guy told me i was better of using dextrose then amber or dark if i wanted a beer that wasnt sweet.

Because I was unsure, I bought two kits and only made one using the dex, my next kit will use DME and whatever else i want to try lol.

oh well, live and learn.

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Old 03-23-2010, 10:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT Ray View Post
Manufactures have two objectives in marketing their canned kits, making the price appealing and the process easy. Sugar cuts the price and fermenting at higher temperatures speeds the process. Unfortunately this results in the cidery, thin and solventy flavors your hear about in grandpa's old homebrew.

My understanding is that these kits are popular in Canada because the price of beer is so high and it's hard to obtain proper ingredients. I can understand that but I think you'll get a little more respect as a homebrewer if you avoid the prohibition methods.

You've got a couple popular canned kit brewers in Canada that mistake their lack of respect from people on forums like this one because they brew from a canned kit. I don't see that being the case, it's the method they chose to brew with that kit.

If that's your fancy that's cool and there's a lot of people happy brewing that way.
Sugar is used by many commercial producers of very fine brews (including most trappists and abbey beers) and is not solely responsible for cidery flavours. If used judiciously in the right brew it can actually be a great thing. Before damning sugar for bad homebrew it pays to look at how it's used, coupled with fermentation processes (specifically temp). Cidery/green apple comes from stressed yeast which may occur for a number of reasons (throwing loads of plain sugar at it willy nilly may be one).

I know you mentioned temperature too and I'm sure you're aware of all the above but specifying the ins and outs helps people learn. The number of new learning brewers who think sugar = bad and all brews should be made with as much malt extract as they can throw at it makes it an important point. How many first time (and even multi-time) extract brewers fail to see a brew drop below 1020 and make overly sweet, cloying malt cordial?
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b33risGOOD View Post
well to set the record straight, I went in there planning to use DME, but the guy only had dark and amber DME. I wanted pale, and the guy told me i was better of using dextrose then amber or dark if i wanted a beer that wasnt sweet.

Because I was unsure, I bought two kits and only made one using the dex, my next kit will use DME and whatever else i want to try lol.

oh well, live and learn.
I don't see how the colour of the extract would effect the sweetness of the end product. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like the brew shop owner has no clue, along with 99% of the rest of them, here in Canada anyways.

I would have gone ahead and used the amber, since you are making a darker brew anyways.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT Ray View Post
Manufactures have two objectives in marketing their canned kits, making the price appealing and the process easy. Sugar cuts the price and fermenting at higher temperatures speeds the process. Unfortunately this results in the cidery, thin and solventy flavors your hear about in grandpa's old homebrew.

My understanding is that these kits are popular in Canada because the price of beer is so high and it's hard to obtain proper ingredients. I can understand that but I think you'll get a little more respect as a homebrewer if you avoid the prohibition methods.

You've got a couple popular canned kit brewers in Canada that mistake their lack of respect from people on forums like this one because they brew from a canned kit. I don't see that being the case, it's the method they chose to brew with that kit.

If that's your fancy that's cool and there's a lot of people happy brewing that way.
I quite agree. Living in Canada, and especially on PEI, I have no access what so ever to decent ingredients, or even decent dry yeast for that matter; but it is no excuse for following the instructions with the kit and making crappy beer. I use DME exclusively; when I can, I order a decent dry yeast off Island. I try to keep my ferment temps reasonable (below 20C/68F). I am quite happy with my results. When I followed the instructions, using corn sugar to the extreme, and brewing at inappropriate temperatures, using the kits mystery yeast, I was very unhappy with the results and almost got out of home brewing.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:33 PM   #17
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manticle,

No, sugar isn't bad but at 40% it eliminates any chance for a very fine brew. Ferment that at 25+ degrees and you have a base recipe to make a bad brew. Explaining why this is bad is understanding why it's instructed. I don't like to get too far into ins and outs and sound like I'm forcing someone not to do it that way.

Pei,

Love the videos. Something about the simplicity of Canadian homebrewrs I like to watch. No talk about mash tuns, conicals or use of coined words like "biscuity". Or maybe it's just the accent.

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Old 03-24-2010, 01:18 AM   #18
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The sad thing was this guys website had a great selection listed, when I show up he has only one ALE kit, and one type of DME, which for some reason he talked me out of using hahah, weird because he would have made more money.

Anyways im not going back their again, ill have to travel a bit but I should have a good selection when all is said and done.

So anyways my next brew im going to use the coopers extract liquid since I already have it, purchase some DME and ill also be doing a partial mash with some grains.

What grains would compliment coopers real ale, i have no idea! this is my selection

In stock

Canadian 2 Row

Light German Munich 1lb

Dark German Munich 1lb

Crystal 15* 1lb "Carastan

Crystal 77* 1lb

Crystal 120* 1lb

Crystal 150 1lb

Marris Otter "ENGLISH 2ROW" 1 lb

Pale Wheat Malt 1lb

Dark Wheat Malt 5lb"

CaraAroma Malt 1 LBS

CaraFoam / Carapils Malt 1 LB

CaraAmber Malt 1 LBS

Vienna Malt 1 lbs

Pilsner Malt 5 lbs

Bohemian Pilsner 1 lb

Pearl Malt 1 lb

Pale Ale Malt 5 lb

Caramunich Type1 1lb

Rye Malt 1 lb

Acidulated Malt 1lb

Golden Promise Malt 1lb

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Old 03-24-2010, 02:36 AM   #19
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Honestly, I'd go back to the first shop and pickup a kilo of the amber DME. Still not really enough malt for a 23 liter batch but 21 should work. If you want to throw in 300-500 grams of sugar with the DME that should make a decent 23 liter batch, just a little drier. Not a bad thing, as previously mentioned 100% extract brews tend to finish a little sweeter.

This is at least how I would approach the kit having not ever used it before. I feel the first time needs to be done with just malt extract (a little sugar is ok) to obtain a point of reference.

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Old 03-24-2010, 06:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT Ray View Post
manticle,

No, sugar isn't bad but at 40% it eliminates any chance for a very fine brew. Ferment that at 25+ degrees and you have a base recipe to make a bad brew. Explaining why this is bad is understanding why it's instructed. I don't like to get too far into ins and outs and sound like I'm forcing someone not to do it that way.
Understood. Kit instructions are terrible over here and presumably are where you guys are from too. I just see a lot of posts on various forums blaming sugar for acetylaldehyde and crying 'all malt' and thought it worthwhile expanding.
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