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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Extract Brewing > THE MAIN EVENT: All Grain vs Extract
View Poll Results: Extract or All Grain
Extract 25 35.21%
All Grain 36 50.70%
Polls are dumb 24 33.80%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-14-2006, 10:05 PM   #21
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Because I AG I'll say AG, but the truth is that if all the ingredients were fresh, then you shouldn't be able to taste any difference.

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Old 10-15-2006, 03:22 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecialEd
cool, anyone know a good place to read up on partial mash?
Look for this month's issue of BYO. They have an article on how to do a partial mash w/ a 2 gallon cooler. In addition they've got articles on how to convert a 10gal cooler for infusion mashing and a huge list of extracts. All in all a VERY good issue techniques wise. (IMHO) I've tried partial mash exactly twice: the first (brown stout) is aging until December and the second is on D -5days to bottle conditioning completion. I'm looking forward to the results.
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Old 10-15-2006, 06:28 AM   #23
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I go with AG because I do AG, although my old extract batches were great.

AG is still my favorite--it's a lot of fun to use lots of cool (and sometimes expensive) brew toys.

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Old 10-15-2006, 06:55 AM   #24
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So does a partial mash help flavor??? I now steep specialty grains every batch and I think it makes ahuge difference. I also heard all grain gives you more control....ie. you can actually make the beer you are aiming for?


PS oh gadgets are great, just got a kegging system, mmmmmmm.....beeer

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Old 10-16-2006, 04:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecialEd
So does a partial mash help flavor??? I now steep specialty grains every batch and I think it makes ahuge difference. I also heard all grain gives you more control....ie. you can actually make the beer you are aiming for?


PS oh gadgets are great, just got a kegging system, mmmmmmm.....beeer
It gives you more control over the body of the beer, and makes *individual* batches a few bucks cheaper. Equipment cost is another story... But heck, it's a hobby! That's money not spent on greens fees.

Oh, and did I mention it's more FUN!
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Old 10-16-2006, 07:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecialEd
So does a partial mash help flavor??? I now steep specialty grains every batch and I think it makes ahuge difference. I also heard all grain gives you more control....ie. you can actually make the beer you are aiming for?


PS oh gadgets are great, just got a kegging system, mmmmmmm.....beeer
Since you can use more specialty grains, not just for steeping, but for their actual sugars...in my opinion, it definitely does help the flavor. Since I moved from extract-steeping to PM, my brews have gotten much better.

Here's a quick and dirty Partial Mash guide:
  1. Put 2-3 quarts of water in your pot, bring to 150 degrees F.
  2. Add grains...can be as much as 3 lbs, but make sure to add more water if it looks dry.
  3. The temp should fall to 130F. Add heat if necessary, and maintian 129-135F for 30 minutes.
  4. Add 3 quarts boiling water to bring the heat up to 155F. Add heat or cold water as necessary to get to this temp. Hold between 149-155F for 45 mins.
  5. Increase heat to bring temp to 158, hold for 10-20 mins to finish starch conversion.
  6. Perform an iodine test to ensure starch conversions: get iodine tincture from the drug store, etc., take a tablespoon of the wort and pour into a shallow white bowl. Add a few drops of iodine. If the iodine drops change color to black or purple, it's not done...keep it at 158F for longer. If the drops do not change color, conversion is done. Proceed!
  7. Raise temp to 167F, then use a large-holed strainer to sparge, using 170F water, into another large container.
  8. In the end, wash out your kettle, and return the sparged wort to the kettle. Proceed as you would with an extract batch.

Hope that helps. I'm sure there are more detailed explanations on the web. Or follow one of Papazian's Complete Joy recipes.

Yes, gadgets are lotsa fun. I just got an 8-gallon brew kettle and an aeration kit. My yeasties are very appreciative if the aeration. A yeastie with a high metabolic rate is a happy yeastie.
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:42 PM   #27
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Been reading this thread and I just gotta chime in on the topic.

I have to say I totally disagree with the people who say that Extract ("if the ingredients are fresh") can be just as good as All-Grain.

Imagine going to a Two Michelin Star Restaurant and going back to the kitchen and finding that all of the meat is in plastic, the vegetables are from cans and the bread is made from a quick mix box. So you ask the head chef, "Whats going on here? Where is the fresh food?", and he says "Not to worry!, everything we cook with here is fresh. Yes, it may come from a can or box but we have been guaranteed by our supplier that nothing is more than 1 month old."

This picture may seem rediculous but its no different than people saying malt extract can make as good a beer as all-grain.

Malt Extract beer is like eating from a can while All-Grain is eating food that was made from scratch.

Extract beer can never, ever be as fresh as an All-Grain beer. Fresh ingredients are key to anything we consume. Nobody argues that pellet hops are just as good as whole fresh hops. Yet people have this idea that a malt syrup from a can or bag can be just as good as making your own fresh extract and brewing with it right then and there.

Randy Mosher states in his book Radical Brewing:

"Malt extract has been largely stripped of aroma, which is why a pound of crystal malt or a mini-mash makes such a dramatic improvement."

Nuff said.

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Old 10-19-2006, 10:31 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carne de Perro
Look for this month's issue of BYO. They have an article on how to do a partial mash w/ a 2 gallon cooler. In addition they've got articles on how to convert a 10gal cooler for infusion mashing and a huge list of extracts. All in all a VERY good issue techniques wise. (IMHO) I've tried partial mash exactly twice: the first (brown stout) is aging until December and the second is on D -5days to bottle conditioning completion. I'm looking forward to the results.

If you don't want to buy the magazine, get it from the website. It's a good article and this is what I used in my first partial mash a couple of weeks ago.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:03 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeratier
Been reading this thread and I just gotta chime in on the topic.

I have to say I totally disagree with the people who say that Extract ("if the ingredients are fresh") can be just as good as All-Grain.

Imagine going to a Two Michelin Star Restaurant and going back to the kitchen and finding that all of the meat is in plastic, the vegetables are from cans and the bread is made from a quick mix box. So you ask the head chef, "Whats going on here? Where is the fresh food?", and he says "Not to worry!, everything we cook with here is fresh. Yes, it may come from a can or box but we have been guaranteed by our supplier that nothing is more than 1 month old."

This picture may seem rediculous but its no different than people saying malt extract can make as good a beer as all-grain.

Malt Extract beer is like eating from a can while All-Grain is eating food that was made from scratch.

Extract beer can never, ever be as fresh as an All-Grain beer. Fresh ingredients are key to anything we consume. Nobody argues that pellet hops are just as good as whole fresh hops. Yet people have this idea that a malt syrup from a can or bag can be just as good as making your own fresh extract and brewing with it right then and there.

Randy Mosher states in his book Radical Brewing:

"Malt extract has been largely stripped of aroma, which is why a pound of crystal malt or a mini-mash makes such a dramatic improvement."

Nuff said.

Of course extract is stripped of much of its aroma. But most, if not all, the "extract" recipes I've seen call for steeping whole grains. I don't think anyone is really advocating just dumping extract syrup into some water, adding hops and yeast, and calling it a day...I think you're arguing with a phantom, Beeratier.
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.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan!
Of course extract is stripped of much of its aroma. But most, if not all, the "extract" recipes I've seen call for steeping whole grains. I don't think anyone is really advocating just dumping extract syrup into some water, adding hops and yeast, and calling it a day...I think you're arguing with a phantom, Beeratier.

You could be right (about my arguing with a phantom).

Steeping whole grains can do a lot for an extract beer and I'm sure thats what most people are doing when brewing with extract. And thankgoodness for extract because without it a lot of people who want to brew wouldn't be able to.

I just want to see more people brew all-grain, thats all. I think its one of the best things you can do to stick it to "The Man", to buck the system and to get in touch with your roots. Its taking beer making to that next level, where you are truly creating something. Its where you control all aspects of what is being spawned from hops and grain. I just see using ready-made extract as one of those things that was started because of our busy lives that just get busier. To brew all-grain is to go back in time when we were not all in such a mad rush or a rat race, whatever you want to call it. When the rhythms of life were dictated by the seasons and by the barley and wheat fields. Brewing all-grain is totally contradictory in a society and culture where its all about instant this and that.

So if there is anyway you can brew all-grain, do it. Its one of the most satisfying things you will ever accomplish.
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