Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway - Enter Now!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Extract Brewing > Late extract additions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-25-2012, 11:49 AM   #1
DickyBenfield
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 11
Likes Given: 6

Default Late extract additions

For now, I am forced to use a very cheap/thin SS brewpot on an electric stove top. For now, I also do strictly extract (usually with steeping grains) but no mini-mash or all-grain. I've found that no matter how careful I am, some of the sugars scortch where the burner touches the pot (in a well defined spiral, Doh!). I believe its due not to undesolved extract sinking to the bottom, but the fact that the heat is not spread more evenly across the thin pot bottom and the sheer volume of sugars in the concentrated wort. I also notice the beers tend to be darker and have a sweeter (I believe carmelized) taste to them than I expect/desire. As a result I have decided to try moving all of the LME to flameout. My thought was I would use the wort from steeping, plus any DME for the boil and move all of the LME to flameout. The first question is whether or not that is ok, or if I need to try to use a specific ratio of the sugars for the boil? Also, I just ordered a few kits and one of them has steeping grains and LME, but no DME. So my next question is, with that kit, can I get away with just using the wort from steeping the grains and no extract during the boil and all of the extract at flameout or do I need to add some of the LME for the boil?

Thanks in advance for any help,
Dicky

__________________
DickyBenfield is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-25-2012, 12:00 PM   #2
duboman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Glenview, IL
Posts: 6,077
Liked 463 Times on 430 Posts
Likes Given: 209

Default

Late additions of the extract will lighten the color a tad. The best way to add extract during the boil is to actually remove the kettle from the flame and slowly add the extract while stirring to keep the extract in suspension while it dissolves in, this will prevent the scorching you are experiencing. You need some of the extract in the wort during the boil to provide for proper hop utilization, it can not all be added at flameout.

__________________
duboman is offline
DickyBenfield Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-25-2012, 12:06 PM   #3
SledgeH
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 218
Liked 25 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

You should read Palmer's book. He actually suggests doing this. You shouldn't harm your beer at all.

__________________
SledgeH is offline
DickyBenfield Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-25-2012, 12:21 PM   #4
KISS Brew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 546
Liked 50 Times on 34 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by duboman View Post
The best way to add extract during the boil is to actually remove the kettle from the flame and slowly add the extract while stirring to keep the extract in suspension while it dissolves in, this will prevent the scorching you are experiencing.
This will probably fix your issue.
__________________
Fermenting / Conditioning:
Beyond the Pale Ale, Cut and Dry Stout

Bottled:
Hoptoberfest IPA, Oktoberfest Ale, Blonde Ale, Scottish Ale, Oatmeal Stout, Edwort's Apfelwein, Janet's Brown Ale, Irish Red Ale, Strawberry Wheat, ESB, Belgian Pale Ale

KISS Brew Homebrewing Blog

Most recent post: Beyond the Pale Ale Recipe
KISS Brew is offline
DickyBenfield Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-25-2012, 02:55 PM   #5
unionrdr
Wannabe author
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
unionrdr's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sheffield, Ohio
Posts: 28,633
Liked 1952 Times on 1711 Posts
Likes Given: 1445

Default

That's what I've been doing since the beginning. I boil 2.5-3 gallons of water,then add half a 3lb bag of plain DME for hop additions. This would be in addition to wort from steeped grains. Then add all the LME at flame out with the remaing half bag of plain DME,stiring very well to completely mix. Then cover & steep 15 minutes. The wort is still 180F plus,so it's more than enough to pasteurize,which happens about 162F.
__________________
Everything works if ya let it-Roady(meatloaf)
My new book is on Amazon Kindle! http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L3MCU0W
unionrdr is offline
DickyBenfield Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-25-2012, 10:45 PM   #6
DickyBenfield
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 11
Likes Given: 6

Default

Thanks everyone. I will reply more later, but I will say for now, I have been very deliberate and careful about not scorching, but it keeps happening. I turn the burner off and remove it from the burner, I let it sit for probably about a minute stirring to ensure there aren't even hotspots remaining on the bottom of the pot, I stir in the LME, once it is all in there I continue stirring, I repeatedly scrape across the bottom and bring the spoon up to see if there is any indication of undissolved LME sitting on the bottom, I continue doing this until I feel kind of silly for not returning it to the heat already, then I stir it a bit longer and finally return it to the burner and turn the burner back on. when I am done and I rack the wort out of the pot, I see scortch marks. Not major ones, but there are faint, slightly darkened areas in a coil on the bottom of the pot where the burner would have been touching it. I assume that is not normal/good no matter if it is faint or not. I suppose I could stir more/longer, but honestly until I get a pot with a thicker base and/or start thinning out he boiled wort, I don't think i will completely get rid of it.

Thanks again for all of the feedback. I will try adding about a third of the total extract (dry first, then liquid if I need to) to the boil for hop utilization and the remainder at flameout.

Cheers!

__________________
DickyBenfield is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-25-2012, 10:52 PM   #7
caioz1jp
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: St. Clair Shores, Michigan
Posts: 166
Liked 5 Times on 3 Posts

Default

Do you top these batches off at the end when you pitch your yeast.? Part of the problem is when boiling at only half the batch volume you create a super saturated solution. when you do this it will make it harder for all the malt sugar to dissolve thus increasining the chance for scorching. I would recomend getting a 7 gallon pot. amazon has a really nice one for about $65. Right now your just fighting the solubility laws of chemistry. Im not saying it cant be done with you set up but those are my thoughts as a chemist.

__________________
caioz1jp is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-25-2012, 11:35 PM   #8
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,756
Liked 4376 Times on 3183 Posts
Likes Given: 852

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DickyBenfield View Post

Thanks again for all of the feedback. I will try adding about a third of the total extract (dry first, then liquid if I need to) to the boil for hop utilization and the remainder at flameout.

Cheers!
That sounds good, but you don't need extract in the wort for hops utilization- that's just not true. I've heard it said a few times, but I don't know of any scientific basis for that claim. To test, boil an ounce of hops in 2 gallons of water for an hour and drink it. I guarantee you it will be bitter!

Anyway, I think a good compromise is to use about a pound of extract (or equivalent if doing grains for part of the fermentables) per gallon of boil volume. So, for a 2-3 gallon boil, consider using 2 pounds of extract at the beginning, with the rest at flame out. I think you'll be happy with the results.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-25-2012, 11:38 PM   #9
unionrdr
Wannabe author
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
unionrdr's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sheffield, Ohio
Posts: 28,633
Liked 1952 Times on 1711 Posts
Likes Given: 1445

Default

Yes,partial boils are meant tobe topped off to total recipe volume. But partial boils in & of themselves do not stop the malt sugars from dissolving. 2.5-3 gallon boils will do a very good job with good brewing practices. When chilled,I pour it & top off water through a fine mesh strainer (about 10" diameter) on top of the FV to aerate it better & get the extra gunk out so I get less trub in the fermenter. Then stir roughly with a plastic paddle for 5 minutes straight to mix it all up well. His pot may still be very hot on the bottom to cause even slight burning. I use plain DME in the boil,then ad remaing DME & all the LME at flame out,cover & steep 15 minutes to pasteurize. Maybe try that to get rid of scortched beer?... It works for me.
__________________
Everything works if ya let it-Roady(meatloaf)
My new book is on Amazon Kindle! http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L3MCU0W
unionrdr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-26-2012, 02:51 AM   #10
DickyBenfield
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 11
Likes Given: 6

Default

caioz1ip, yes, I boil about 2.5 - 3.0 gallons, then top off to 5 gallons at the end. That is sort of what I am thinking. I think it completely desolves, but the fact is 7 - 8 pounds of extract in 2.5 - 3 gallons is much more dense than the same amount of extract in 5 - 6 gallons, so it stands to reason that it could scorch easier. But if I cut that back to 2 or 3 pounds of extract it will be much closer to the gravity of a full volume boil. less darkening, less carmelization, less chance of scorch. As far as a 7 gallon pot, there are 2 problems with that. First is I don't have $65. I know it doesnt sound like much, but its just not in my budget right now. The second problem is that I don't think the burners on my stove top are capable of bringing that volume to a boil. Its a pretty lame electric range. If the pot were big enough to cover at least 2 burners, then it might. I just checked and if the pot were at least about 15" in diameter, then I think I could pull it off. I'll look at some pots and maybe in a couple of months I can pick one up.

Yooper, Thanks thats good to know. Im planning to brew Saturday. Thats definitely the route I'm going to go. I'll post how I think it turns out. But I'm confident that I will be pleased (hell, it doesn't take much to make me happy, so as long as I don't completely ruin a batch, I'm in good shape).

unionrdr, Thanks. I've been racking from the boil pot into the FV, but it takes most of the crap with it anyway, so I think I will try straining this time. To aerate, I've been shaking the hell out of the primary after I top it off, but after watching this "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vELwUsBmWQ" I think I might get a fish pump and stone... 25 minutes with an aquarium pump vs 15 minutes of shaking??? I think my arms would fall off!!! lol as far as the DME for the boil and LME at flameout, that is what I am thinking when I have DME in the recipe, but for example my NB Irish Red Ale kit doesnt call for any DME, just steeping grains and LME. I may add a pound of DME, but I don't want to add any more than a pound, and I may just add a little of the LME like 1/4 of it. But when possible, your method sounds like the way to go.

Thanks again...
Cheers,
Dicky

__________________
DickyBenfield is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Late extract additions with a full boil? 29thfloor Extract Brewing 4 10-24-2011 01:03 PM
Late extract additions and boil times MrWildcat2U Extract Brewing 5 09-08-2011 06:49 PM
Full Boil & Late Extract Additions? ForumMember Extract Brewing 6 03-03-2010 02:26 AM
Late Extract Additions N5629 Extract Brewing 21 12-04-2008 06:53 PM
Late extract additions Teddi Brewski Extract Brewing 12 10-20-2008 12:57 PM