Late Extract Addition in a Hefeweizen

antheus · 04-16-2009, 06:15 PM

Hey all, I just ordered my equipment and an extract kit from northern brewer a few days ago and will be ready to start my first batch early next week. I plan on doing their Bavarian Hefeweizen

Bavarian Hefe Weizen Extract Kit -- Kit Inventory Sheet

which contains the following:

6 lbs Wheat Malt Syrup
1 lbs Wheat Dry Malt Extract
1 oz Sterling (60 min)

I decided to go with the white labs 3068 instead of the yeast on there because I thought it would do a better job of getting the flavors I wanted (after reading through a number of hefe threads).

I read through the big 15 page late extract addition thread and couldn't seem to find a simple answer to my question so I apologize in advance for making a new thread about this.

I'd like to do a late extract addition, mainly for color and to avoid caramelization. Now my question is regarding the hops utilization.

1) How would I adjust the hops to account for the higher hops utilization? Add the hops later or just add less of it? Is there an easy and reliable way to calculate this?

2) Is this even the right hops to use to get the kind of beer I want? I drank some Franziskaner in Austria a year ago and fell in love with the style, and that is really the kind of flavor I would be looking for (which was why I chose the White Labs 3068). In this thread regarding subbing sterling for hallertau (which I believe to be a commonly used hops for a hefe)

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/bee-cave-brewery-bavarian-hefeweizen-35679/index3.html

Edworts mentions sterling "Should be OK, but watch your IBUs, Sterling is about twice as strong as Hallertau. Depending on the Alfa % you will want to scale back to about 1/2 for each addition."

Does this mean I should maybe scale back the sterling even further with a late extract addition if I want a hefe with a similar taste to a Franzi?

I apologize for my ignorance, but really all I know about beer is what/that I like to drink. Thanks in advance for all the help though, it was less than a week ago that I decided to embark on this endeavor and i've already learned so much from you all!

McGarnigle · 04-16-2009, 06:59 PM

To answer part of your question, you should look at the AA% on the packages to see about adjustments between types of hops. If your Sterling are twice as high as Hallertauer, you should you use twice as much of the latter.

I don't know what hops Franziskaner uses, but there are several hops that would work for the style. NB's Sterling aren't wrong, and I'd be inclined to go with them. This isn't a hop-heavy style, and there are no aroma or flavor hops in your recipe.

ifishsum · 04-16-2009, 08:02 PM

In my experience when doing a partial boil, adjusting the hops to account for the late extract addition doesn't make a huge difference. Scale down the addition for the AA% difference and maybe another 10% and you should be fine. How much wort do you plan to boil and how much extract are you going to start the boil with?

antheus · 04-16-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifishsum

In my experience when doing a partial boil, adjusting the hops to account for the late extract addition doesn't make a huge difference. Scale down the addition for the AA% difference and maybe another 10% and you should be fine. How much wort do you plan to boil and how much extract are you going to start the boil with?

Well I'm not really sure how much I'll boil with (perhaps you can help me with that too!). I'm not going to be moving to full boils/AG any time soon, I was thinking of boiling about 2.5-3 gallons using just the 1# DME to begin with and then adding the 6# LME as a late boil addition. I actually don't have my stockpot yet, and was wondering if you had any suggestions on size.

Stockpot - Royal Palm Restaurant & Event Supply

Has some very good prices, is there any reason not to take the 24 qt over the 20 qt? Thanks!

McGarnigle · 04-16-2009, 08:30 PM

Very good prices there. No reason not to take the 24 quart, although your boil volume may be limited by your heat source (electric stove? turkey fryer?).

Boil as much as you can (but always a bit under your pot size due to boiloff threats). I'd add some of that LME early too. I don't know if it's the consensus view, but I recently listened to a podcast where they argued that boiling in too watery wort (or pure water) will make the hops harsh. So add about half early, half late.

antheus · 04-16-2009, 09:07 PM

Excellent advice, I'll do half early half late. As for the heat source, I probably won't be moving to propane for quite a while, and all I have at the moment is an electric stove. My brew plan will basically be to do a partial boil (say 3 gallons) and add the remaining 2 gallons as cold water to bring the temperature down quickly, then to add however much more is needed to get to my 5 gallon batch size. Is this reasonable do you think?

How much room do you typically want to leave for boiling? If I were doing 3 gallon boils would a 4 gallon pot be sufficient?

Also, is there any real advantage to a full vs. a partial extract boil(i know there's a whole thread about it's incredibly long)?

I was considering picking up an inexpensive electric turkey fryer because 2.5-3 gallon boils are right in line with what I want to do for the time being. There are a few threads that mention being able to do 2.5-3 gallon boils with it no problem, so I'll see how much this fellow on craigslist wants for it. Sorry to bombard you with some unrelated questions but thank you in advance!

ifishsum · 04-16-2009, 11:22 PM

Half early and half late is probably good. As far as boil size, my pot will hold 3 gallons but I have to watch real close as it first starts boiling to avoid boilovers - there's only about 2 inches left to the top. After an hour of good boiling I will have lost 1/2 gallon or maybe a little more, so you might need close to 3 gallons of top-up water. I buy gallon jugs and put them in the freezer 3 hours before I figure to be finished, that way they really help cool the wort quickly.

antheus · 04-17-2009, 12:06 AM

Alright in that case I'll probably aim to start off with 3, top off a bit of the way through with more boiled water from my electric kettle thingy, and then when it comes time to cool it I'll toss 2 gallons of freezer water in there to hit 5 gallons. Sound reasonable?

homebrewer_99 · 04-17-2009, 12:51 AM

GO here also:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/paulaner-style-hefe-weizen-32811/

antheus · 04-17-2009, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebrewer_99

GO here also:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/paulaner-style-hefe-weizen-32811/

Yea I've actually referred to this recipe a lot, and it was what I was originally going to do, but I wanted to make sure I got all the right stuff and the kit price was pretty tough to beat. Believe it or not I've come an incredibly long way with my knowledge during this time and realized that some of the stuff in the kit I got may not be what I want in my final flavor. I'll probably tone down the hops addition a bit to account for both the slight increase in utilization and the higher AA% (6-9% for sterling as oppose to what looks like 3-5% for hallertau).