New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermenter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Extract Brewing > Late extract addition and flavor/aroma hops




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-20-2013, 05:56 PM   #11
KepowOb
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 251
Liked 28 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterj View Post
Late extract addition doesn't affect IBUs that much. From my experience and from what I've read it doesn't have much of an effect at all. That's one reason I always use Rager for my IBU formula. The idea is that boiling hops in lower gravity wort gives you better utilization than higher gravity. But, the relationship between gravity and utilization isn't a direct one and it applies mainly to all grain. The alpha acids adsorb to grain dust and proteins formed in the boil and drop out of solution with them, so if you have more grain with a higher gravity beer you have more proteins and dust that adsorb more alpha acids thus lowering your utilization. But with extract you don't have any grain dust and you have much less proteins forming in the boil because the extract has already been boiled during processing, so you don't have the same relationship between gravity and utilization. Late extract additions are a good idea though because they keep the color lighter and can help to avoid a "cooked extract" flavor. But I don't think they affect hop utilization.
If adding your extract at the start or end has no effect on hops, then why add any at the start at all? I do full volume boils, but I like understanding the theory on these things, and I always thought the point of adding any extract at all at the start was just for hop utilization. If not, there really is no point to boil any extract till flameout, no?


__________________

--
Drinking: Oatmeal Stout, Amber Ale
Bottle conditioning: Nothing :(
Fermenting: Not so Amber Ale
Up next: TBA

KepowOb is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2013, 06:12 PM   #12
peterj
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
peterj's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Smyrna, GA
Posts: 823
Liked 78 Times on 65 Posts
Likes Given: 43

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KepowOb View Post
If adding your extract at the start or end has no effect on hops, then why add any at the start at all? I do full volume boils, but I like understanding the theory on these things, and I always thought the point of adding any extract at all at the start was just for hop utilization. If not, there really is no point to boil any extract till flameout, no?
That's a question I've thought about before too. But I have heard that boiling hops in plain water can extract a harsh unpleasant bitterness. I've read that you need some malt in your boil to avoid this. I'm not sure if just the sugars you get from the steeping grains would be enough. I've never tried doing all of the extract at flameout though so who knows? Plus you would miss out on that wonderful boiling wort aroma!

EDIT: So I guess I'm saying the extract does affect the hops, just not in a drastic, IBU doubling way.


__________________
peterj is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2013, 07:14 PM   #13
KepowOb
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 251
Liked 28 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterj View Post
That's a question I've thought about before too. But I have heard that boiling hops in plain water can extract a harsh unpleasant bitterness. I've read that you need some malt in your boil to avoid this. I'm not sure if just the sugars you get from the steeping grains would be enough. I've never tried doing all of the extract at flameout though so who knows? Plus you would miss out on that wonderful boiling wort aroma!

EDIT: So I guess I'm saying the extract does affect the hops, just not in a drastic, IBU doubling way.
Cool, looks like we're more in line with each others thoughts on it than it seemed at first .

To add onto the topic, how does diluting your wort effect hop flavours and aromas. When someone does a partial boil, when you add the water in it takes your IBUs down a lot (if you have 2.5gal on 100IBU wort and add 2.5gal of water, you're only left with 50IBU wort, making IPAs harder to accomplish with partial boils)... but how does it effect aroma and flavour?? Is it the same effect, or similar but not as drastic?
__________________

--
Drinking: Oatmeal Stout, Amber Ale
Bottle conditioning: Nothing :(
Fermenting: Not so Amber Ale
Up next: TBA

KepowOb is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2013, 02:38 PM   #14
Unferth
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 421
Liked 52 Times on 36 Posts
Likes Given: 17

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterj View Post
That's a question I've thought about before too. But I have heard that boiling hops in plain water can extract a harsh unpleasant bitterness. I've read that you need some malt in your boil to avoid this. I'm not sure if just the sugars you get from the steeping grains would be enough. I've never tried doing all of the extract at flameout though so who knows? Plus you would miss out on that wonderful boiling wort aroma!

EDIT: So I guess I'm saying the extract does affect the hops, just not in a drastic, IBU doubling way.
But, if one does mini mashes with about 5 lbs of grain, would that be enough to provide 'powder' or avoid bad hop flavors?
__________________
Unferth is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2013, 04:57 PM   #15
peterj
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
peterj's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Smyrna, GA
Posts: 823
Liked 78 Times on 65 Posts
Likes Given: 43

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unferth View Post
But, if one does mini mashes with about 5 lbs of grain, would that be enough to provide 'powder' or avoid bad hop flavors?
Yeah that would be fine. That would be pretty much like adding 3 or 4 pounds of extract at the beginning of the boil. When you do a mini mash or AG you're just making your own malt extract.
__________________
peterj is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-22-2013, 01:45 PM   #16
r3dapples
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
Default

are there any adverse effects if the wort stops boiling after the late extract addition?

__________________
r3dapples is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-22-2013, 02:38 PM   #17
unionrdr
Gotta home brew jones
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
unionrdr's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sheffield, Ohio
Posts: 26,626
Liked 1666 Times on 1471 Posts
Likes Given: 1144

Default

Wel,,the last 5 minutes or less are aroma additions,but that lil bit of hops shouldn't kill the boil...

__________________
Everything works if ya let it-Roady(meatloaf)
unionrdr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-22-2013, 02:39 PM   #18
ncbrewer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Bern, NC
Posts: 757
Liked 39 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by r3dapples View Post
are there any adverse effects if the wort stops boiling after the late extract addition?
You can expect the boil to stop - no problem. You have two choices: 1) Heat it back to boiling for the time required (and add finishing hops after the late extract addition), or 2) Add it at flameout and not worry about getting it back to boil. (I guess technically there are some other choices, but these seem like the more obvious ones.) I've done both, and decided adding at flameout works much better for me - much simpler, and the results seem more predictable.
__________________
ncbrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-22-2013, 02:56 PM   #19
BxBrewer
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 448
Liked 57 Times on 41 Posts
Likes Given: 37

Default

I like to add my late addition at flame out too. The wort is hot enough to liquefy the extract at that point.

I can stress enough the importance of mixing . Pre,during and post boil. If you are doing partial boils and topping off with water. You need to make sure your mixing enough. A couple of shakes on the carboy isn't enough. Wort and water are different densities.



__________________
BxBrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the best way to extract flavor, aroma and bitter from hops? Shred Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 04-16-2013 01:12 PM
Late extract additions and flavor/aroma of hops spiffcow Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 7 07-03-2011 01:36 PM
late extract addition-less bittering hops? Paulasaurus Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 5 03-15-2009 01:28 PM
Late extract addition how much hops? Patton191 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 10 03-07-2009 02:18 AM
Very late addition flavor hops g_rath General Techniques 6 02-21-2008 12:36 PM