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Old 08-11-2013, 06:52 PM   #1
CraptainWirtz
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Default Late extract addition and flavor/aroma hops

I've read a lot of threads on late extract addition, but I don't think I've seen a discussion on this particular question.

I get my LME from MoreBeer and it comes in these foil bags. I haven't timed how long it takes me to squeeze out all the extract (I use a roll/fold-and-squeeze method like you would for a toothpaste tube), but I bet it's close to 5 minutes. Suppose I were to add all or the majority of my LME at 5 minutes left in the boil, or at flameout: has anyone ever determined how this affects the timing of your flavor and aroma hop additions?

Just to use an example, if I add a 5-minute aroma hop addition and then add LME at flameout, that's an extra 5 minutes the wort is near boiling. How much aroma am I losing? How do folks handle this?

Thanks,
Mark

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Old 08-11-2013, 08:04 PM   #2
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Mark very good question. I too use Morebeers extract along with doing late addition extract . What i do is use a separate 1 gal pitcher and a jiffy mixer. I add my first extract addition "little less than half" to the pitcher. Then add some of my all ready hot boil water to it and mix it.

For my late addition: Because I'm pre mixing before adding my extract to the boil. I have plenty of time to roll up and squeeze out the remaining extract into the pitcher. Once I'm ready i take some of the boiling wort and add it in the pitcher hold the remaining LME and mix it. Then kill the heat and use the same mixer to mix it in.

Hope that made sense

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Old 08-11-2013, 08:17 PM   #3
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Yeah, that's a good idea. For your late addition, what's your approximate LME/hot wort ratio?

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Old 08-11-2013, 08:45 PM   #4
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I add about 1.5-2 pounds of extract at the beginning to 2.5-3.5 gallon partial boil for hop additions. Given the choice,I use half a 3lb bag of plain light DME in the boil for the hop additions. I remove aroma hop additions at flame out usually. Then the remaining DME & all LME at flame out. Maybe even toss the aroma hop sack back in after stirring in remaining extracts for the cover & steep for a few minutes. This lets pasteurization happen (160F),since the wort was still boiling hot when the remaining malts were added. And being not quite boiling temp,the aroma hops can steep a couple more minutes at the slightly lower temp.

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Old 08-12-2013, 12:15 AM   #5
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uniondr, I think it's reasonable to add aroma hops at flameout like you do, but then do you worry about your flavor hops sitting in hot wort for too long, so you've essentially turned your flavor hops into bittering hops?

I guess another way to ask my original question is: do you change the timing of your flavor and aroma hops to account for time dissolving a late malt extract addition? My gut would say yes, as the whole time you're dissolving extract, your wort is near boiling.

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Old 08-13-2013, 10:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraptainWirtz View Post
uniondr, I think it's reasonable to add aroma hops at flameout like you do, but then do you worry about your flavor hops sitting in hot wort for too long, so you've essentially turned your flavor hops into bittering hops?

I guess another way to ask my original question is: do you change the timing of your flavor and aroma hops to account for time dissolving a late malt extract addition? My gut would say yes, as the whole time you're dissolving extract, your wort is near boiling.
What I said was I remove aroma hops at flame out. Do my late extract additions. then maybe toss the aroma hops back in while steeping the late additions. The flavor hops are out,as are the aroma hops most of the time. aroma hop additions are usually the last 2-5 minutes of the boil anyway.
So no,I don't change the timing of the flavor & aroma additions for anything. A late extract addition stands alone as just that. The extract I add before timing the boil is it till flame out.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:49 PM   #7
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Good thread.

Related question: how does late addition extract effect IBUs? I never thought it would make a difference, but I plugged it into brewersfriend calculator and it drastically effects the est. final ibu. Check it out:

Adding DME at start:

image.jpg

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Old 08-19-2013, 05:51 PM   #8
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VS adding DME at end:

image.jpg

I think it's wrong on numbers, but is there a big difference in IBUs in late vs early DME additions?

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Old 08-20-2013, 02:05 PM   #9
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Hop utilization is what it comes down to. That's why your seeing a bigger IBU .

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Old 08-20-2013, 03:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unferth View Post
Good thread.

Related question: how does late addition extract effect IBUs? I never thought it would make a difference, but I plugged it into brewersfriend calculator and it drastically effects the est. final ibu. Check it out:

Adding DME at start:

Attachment 142833
Late extract addition doesn't affect IBUs that much. From my experience and from what I've read it doesn't have much of an effect at all. That's one reason I always use Rager for my IBU formula. The idea is that boiling hops in lower gravity wort gives you better utilization than higher gravity. But, the relationship between gravity and utilization isn't a direct one and it applies mainly to all grain. The alpha acids adsorb to grain dust and proteins formed in the boil and drop out of solution with them, so if you have more grain with a higher gravity beer you have more proteins and dust that adsorb more alpha acids thus lowering your utilization. But with extract you don't have any grain dust and you have much less proteins forming in the boil because the extract has already been boiled during processing, so you don't have the same relationship between gravity and utilization. Late extract additions are a good idea though because they keep the color lighter and can help to avoid a "cooked extract" flavor. But I don't think they affect hop utilization.
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