Late Extract Addition

Funkenjaeger · 08-02-2007, 05:56 PM

I've been talking about the late extract addition method with the guy at the LHBS. He'd never heard of this method. I've been using it for quite a few batches now, especially lighter brews like hefeweizens, to keep them light. He did not seem to think it was a very good idea, which was quite surprising to me because I don't think I've heard anyone say anything negative about late extract addition to this point, so I wanted to dig a little deeper.

He said that he thought that only boiling most of the extract for 15 mins or so would cause problems - that the full boiling time was needed to properly coagulate and precipitate undesirable proteins out of the wort, and that the late extract addition would end up affecting the fermentation as a result, leaving lots of unfermentables and other undesirable things in there.

My thinking was that since malt extract is made by mashing grains and then boiling the resulting wort down to concentrate it into extract, that much of the 'undesirables' would have already been coagulated/driven off/etc before you even got the extract. But, I don't know how the low-pressure boiling environment they use to reduce extract affects this. I suppose part of my reason for thinking this was that I thought all-grain batches had much more significant hot break than extract batches (thus a lot more proteins and junk that need to be boiled), which I very well may be wrong about.

So I guess the real questions are (with all issues of hop utilization aside):
1) is there enough protein/etc in malt extract that it is very detrimental to not boil it long enough?
2) does most of the coagulation/etc occur during the hot break, or does it mostly occur as a slow process throughout the boil?
3) if it doesn't happen all at once, how long a boil is "long enough"? Is the 10-15 minutes normally used with late extract additions insufficient? Does it need to be the full 60+ minutes?

So I'd be quite interested in hearing any other opinions on the matter.

Beerrific · 08-02-2007, 06:20 PM

There is an interview on Basic Brewing Radio with a guy from Briess and he said their extract truly needs no boil, but you probably should for 15 minutes to sanitize since it might not have been handled properly.

You are right, all the hot and cold break is removed when it is boiled the first time.

ArroganceFan · 08-02-2007, 06:26 PM

Do you have any batches that you have bottled/kegged since you started this? As an extract brewer myself, I am curious how the final outcomes have been and if this method is worth trying.

Beerrific · 08-02-2007, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArroganceFan

Do you have any batches that you have bottled/kegged since you started this? As an extract brewer myself, I am curious how the final outcomes have been and if this method is worth trying.

I have done it once. It was a mini mash Kolsch. I added no extract at the begining, only the wort from the mash. I added 3 pound or so at the end. I had a very large cold break in the fermenter but I think that was from the mash plus I cooled slowly and transfered everything from the kettle. Fermentation went fine. It has come out very light. There are a lot of people that do this. If you do a search and look for posts by homebrewer_99, he does it and by the looks he makes awesome beer.

Here's that Kolsch:

worxman02 · 08-02-2007, 06:47 PM

I just did a late extract addition with my belgian wit in order to keep it light. I just bottled it recently and it tastes great and is a nice light color. I dont think that there are any adverse effects to it. Plus i remember reading i think in Palmer's "how to brew" that buy doing a late extract addition you get better hop utilization during the boil.

Beerrific · 08-02-2007, 06:48 PM

Here you go, this is the thread you should be reading: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/extract-addition-last-15min-boil-26151/

RickWG · 08-02-2007, 09:54 PM

I do it in every brew, well, maybe not in the stout I just did but it's a stout. The hefe, pa, ipa, cream ale...etc have all been late additions.
Happy with them all.

cardiac_cadet002 · 08-02-2007, 10:13 PM

so are you just boiling water and hops for the first 45 minutes of a 60 minute boil?

mot · 08-02-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beerrific

There is an interview on Basic Brewing Radio with a guy from Briess and he said their extract truly needs no boil, but you probably should for 15 minutes to sanitize since it might not have been handled properly.

You are right, all the hot and cold break is removed when it is boiled the first time.

there was a podcast it might have been BBR but I think it was caligonie said that you dont even need to boil it for 15 minutes adding it at floame ouot is efficinet because it will be well above 170 for a little bit and that should kill everything

Beerrific · 08-02-2007, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mot

there was a podcast it might have been BBR but I think it was caligonie said that you dont even need to boil it for 15 minutes adding it at floame ouot is efficinet because it will be well above 170 for a little bit and that should kill everything

It depends on how fast you chill, but yeah your right, flame out would probably be fine.