Yoop- Do you think it could have anything to do with the caramelization of sugars in full extract vs late extract boils. More surgar has time to caramelization and become unformentable, leaving a greater residual sweetness? Thus the IBU would have a more difficult time of staning out.
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- Humphrey Bogart
If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet it makes beer shoot out your nose.
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Beersmith (and pretty much all homebrewing software) gets this wrong pretty dramatically. The formulas used by software are based on the old, mistaken belief that hop utilization is affected by wort gravity (pretty much all home brewing texts convey that myth too, though I'd expect it to be corrected in forthcoming additions of How to Brew and others).
Hop utilization is independent of wort gravity, and the impact (if any) of late extract addition on IBUs is much, much smaller than what software will calculate.
I listened to the basic brewing podcast etc...
So, if I'm just getting started using Beersmith and am doing a partial mash/boil, should I just use the program as if I'm boiling the full volume and forget all the high gravity wort hop utilization stuff? It seems like some people have different opinions based on anecdotal evidence and brewing science standard practices, but what's the final word?
Don't forget a good portion of your sense of taste is in your nose. If you dont believe me try sipping a beer while holding your nose. I bet the "aroma" hops additions also have something to do with it.
An allied question: Just bought my first ingredients kit, it's a Brewer's Best kit based on a partial (2.5 gallon) boil. The instructions say if the boil volume is higher the biterness will be higher. Seems counter intuitive, not sure whether they got it backwards or there's something fundamental I don't understand. To me, if I brew Tea using 3 OZ of dried tea and 16 OZ of water, I get tea. If I brew Tea using 3 OZ of tea and 1 gallon of water, I get really weak tea. Not true for Hops?
An allied question: Just bought my first ingredients kit, it's a Brewer's Best kit based on a partial (2.5 gallon) boil. The instructions say if the boil volume is higher the biterness will be higher. Seems counter intuitive, not sure whether they got it backwards or there's something fundamental I don't understand. To me, if I brew Tea using 3 OZ of dried tea and 16 OZ of water, I get tea. If I brew Tea using 3 OZ of tea and 1 gallon of water, I get really weak tea. Not true for Hops?
It has more to do with the ph than the amount of water. Hops have a higher utilization at higher PH levels. When you add extract to water it lowers the PH. Also at a higher PH the hops release other chemicals more easily, some of which can make the beer more astringent.
Haven't the "experts" all changed their mind on this recently and now say it's not gravity at all but break material that affects hop utilization?
I don't know about "all", but many have. See my first post in the thread for links.
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On deck: Little Bo Pils, Bretta Off Dead (Brett pale)
Secondary: Oude Bruin, Red Sky at Morning (Sour brown ale)
On tap: Saison Duphunk (sour), Amarillo Slim (IPA), Earl White (ginger/bergamot wit)
Bottled: Number 8 (Belgian Strong Dark Ale), Eternale (Barleywine), Ancho Villa (Ancho/pasilla/chocolate/cinnamon RIS), Oak smoked porter (1/2 maple bourbon oaked, 1/2 apple brandy oaked)
I think the perceived improvement of hop utilization may just fall into the category with marijuana or honey. As scientists we can observe these things in great detail but the difference lies on a level that is not possible to mimic or quantify.
I think the perceived improvement of hop utilization may just fall into the category with marijuana or honey. As scientists we can observe these things in great detail but the difference lies on a level that is not possible to mimic or quantify.
The BBR test did a blind taste test of the 3; no quantification, just human perception. It's worth a listen.
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On deck: Little Bo Pils, Bretta Off Dead (Brett pale)
Secondary: Oude Bruin, Red Sky at Morning (Sour brown ale)
On tap: Saison Duphunk (sour), Amarillo Slim (IPA), Earl White (ginger/bergamot wit)
Bottled: Number 8 (Belgian Strong Dark Ale), Eternale (Barleywine), Ancho Villa (Ancho/pasilla/chocolate/cinnamon RIS), Oak smoked porter (1/2 maple bourbon oaked, 1/2 apple brandy oaked)
Very interesting info here. I just recently read Palmer's book and had been taking it as gospel, so it's nice to get the fresh perspective. It may also help explain why my IBU calculations have diverged from what I've seen in other places. I've been calculating using Tinseth's formula with Excel, but also have the iBrewMaster app on my phone. On my last batch I came up with 37.2 IBU while iBrewMaster came up with 55.5. Does anyone know what formulas that particular app uses?
The takeaway for me is to decide on one formula and stick with it in order to be able to draw apples to apples comparisons from batch to batch. Or if you are looking at the IBUs for a particular recipe, then also know what formula was used to calculate that particular value.
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