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Old 01-11-2013, 03:33 PM   #1
northernbrewin
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Default IPA recipe help

So i have been pondering doing an IPA and decided to download beersmith. Messed around a bit and got a recipe i may try. My only question is when i adjust the addition of my second 3lbs of pilsen lme and 1lb of amber dme to boil only 1 min or add "after boil" it jumps my ibu's up from 50ish to 80ish. when i return the boil time back to 0 or uncheck "add after boil" it goes back down to 50ish. Just wondering what the deal is as im VERY new to using this program. Here is my recipe so far when malt is at 0 minutes boil.
1 lbs Amber Dry Extract (12.5 SRM) Dry Extract 1 12.5 %
3 lbs Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.5 SRM) Extract 2 37.5 %
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 3 12.5 %
3 lbs Pilsner Liquid Extract [Boil for 60 min](3.5 SRM) Extract 4 37.5 %
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 26.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 6 12.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 10.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 2.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 2.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 1.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg SafBrew Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-33) [23.66 ml] Yeast 12 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.061 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.5 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 54.9 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 5.2 SRM

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Old 01-11-2013, 03:36 PM   #2
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Here is with 1 min boil time
Type: Extract Date: 1/11/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal Brewer:
Boil Size: 2.82 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Pot ( 3 Gal/11.4 L) - Extract
End of Boil Volume 2.60 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal Est Mash Efficiency 0.0 %
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 1 12.5 %
3 lbs Pilsner Liquid Extract [Boil for 60 min](3.5 SRM) Extract 2 37.5 %
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 26.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 4 12.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 5 10.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 2.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 2.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 1.1 IBUs
1 lbs Amber Dry Extract [Boil for 1 min](12.5 SRM) Dry Extract 9 12.5 %
3 lbs Pilsner Liquid Extract [Boil for 1 min](3.5 SRM) Extract 10 37.5 %
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg SafBrew Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-33) [23.66 ml] Yeast 12 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.061 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.5 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 88.3 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 5.2 SRM

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Old 01-11-2013, 04:07 PM   #3
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I have also been contemplating substituting the chinook for columbus or summit just not sure yet! i got a few buckets so i may go down to 2 1/2 gallon batches trying each

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Old 01-11-2013, 04:42 PM   #4
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1. For some scientific reason, later additions of DME, LME and sugars are better if you are using a lot of hops in your boil. Someone could explain it better but it's science.

2. You will get better results if you are able to do a full boil and minimal top-off water at the end. That way you aren't watering down your IBUs.

3. I would avoid some of the early additions and push them to the last 15 minutes of the boil. This will give you more aroma and flavor and less pure bittering, which after a certain point is a waste of hops.

4. I would hops something like this:

  • 0.5 oz. Chinook @ 60min
  • 2 oz. Cascade @ 15min
  • 0.5 oz. Chinook @ 15-10min

5. It looks as if you are only dry hopping with 0.5 oz, or not dry hopping at all. If that is the case you are going to be pretty disappointed in the aroma on this brew. Dry hopping is a cornerstone of IPA brewing and helps immensely with the aroma. I would recommend letting it ferment out in primary and then dry hop it in secondary for 14 days as follows:
  • Blend 1 oz of Cascade and 1 oz of Chinook
  • Add 1 oz. of blended hops to secondary for the first 7 days
  • Add remaining ounce for another 3-5 days
  • Siphon to bucket and bottle

I believe this method would give you a better aroma and hop flavor.

Sorry if this is confusing or I come off as a jerk. I am passionate about hops, hopping and IPAs :P
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:21 PM   #5
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No I appreciate any input and help. Other people's thoughts and opinions is how u learn, grow, and change. Any input and or suggestion is always welcome in my book!
The reason I broke down my hops like that is from the reading I have been doing says different boil times produces different oils/acids. I will look into a hops schedule as u posted. So adding the lme/dme/sugar later in the boil will push up the ibus. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something or doing something wrong on the program.
Now what is the reasoning behind dry hopping chinook or any high alpha hop considering they are primarily used for "bittering" that just seems a little wasteful to me. I wasn't planning on dry hopping just adding the last .50 oz at flameout.
I have also pondered the idea of breaking down the batch once boiled. turning it into two 2 1/2 gallon batches and dry hopping one and not the other. I have never made an ipa or dry hopped so i am just learning how it will affect my beer.

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Old 01-11-2013, 05:30 PM   #6
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Dry hopping only affects the aroma. No matter what the AA is on the hop, it will not add bitterness because in order to release the bittering compounds, the hop as the be boiled.

You could dry hop with a 20%AA hop and it would only affect the aroma. IPAs are dry-hopped because their aroma is a big part of what makes an IPA an IPA.

I used to think high AA meant bittering but really any variety can be used for dry hopping, it just depends on what sort of aroma you are going for.

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Old 01-11-2013, 06:11 PM   #7
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When you boiling hops you are doing extraction of the AA's with the wort. Several factors effect this extraction. Obviously boil time effects it. Also the specific gravity of the wort effects the extraction (or utilization).

This specific gravity isn't your OG in the fermenter. It is SG of the wort solution you are boiling. So if you boil 3 gal of a 5 gal batch your boil SG is higher and hops utilization is lower. If you do a late extract addition the SG of your boil is lower and hops utilization is higher.

I'm not familiar with beer smith, but when you tell it to add Extract "after boil" it is probably assuming and the end of the boil after flameout. I use BrewersFriend which has an option for "late addition". It basically just takes it out of the IBU calc.

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Old 01-11-2013, 06:15 PM   #8
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Here is the mathmatical version... This is the Tinseth equation which can be used to calculate IBU.

tinseth.jpg

Gravity is the sg of what you are boiling so you can see how things like boil size and late additions impact IBU. Time is straightforward. The term on the right is wt of hops, aa% and batch size.

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Old 01-11-2013, 08:45 PM   #9
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So essentially the ibus will be higher boiling with less malt due to the sg being lower to help extract the oils and acids. That makes sense but I'm still pondering the whole dry hopping idea. I do understand you are only adding aroma with dry hopping which adds to the whole experience of an IPA. Now it's just some experimental time to get under my belt and do the ol mix and match and figure out what I like. Thank you for all the help and knowledge and I will hopefully be brewing another batch tonight and get my IPA experience going.

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Old 01-12-2013, 01:50 AM   #10
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It's important to keep in mind that measurable bitterness and perceived bitterness are different. So dry hooping, even though it doesn't add measurable bitterness, can impact the perception of bitterness. Which honestly is way more important than measured bitterness anyway.

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