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Old 01-21-2009, 06:46 PM   #1
cmdrico7812
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Default How Do I Make an Extract Flanders Red/Sour Ale?

My wife and I both love Rodenbach Grand Cru as well as Duchess. I've been wanting to experiment in making a sour ale similar to these at home as an extract version. There's this recipe in the database, but I need some help with it. Could someone help clarify this a little or share experiences they've had making an extract or PM version of a sour ale? The big question I have with the Gilda recipe I linked to is when do I add the lactose? Any additional instructions to the Gilda recipe or a new recipe anyone has for a sour ale would be great. Thanks so much!

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Old 01-21-2009, 08:28 PM   #2
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Lactose is unfermentable, so you can add it whenever you feel most comfortable. Adding it to the boil will help dissolve it, or if you're not sure how much sweetness you want, you can try adding it at bottling, but it can be difficult to get it to dissolve.

That recipe you linked to already is a partial mash. If you can't mash that much with your PM method, you can reduce the amount of 2 row and increase the amount of extract until it works for you.

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Old 01-22-2009, 01:22 PM   #3
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Thanks for your advice. I will most likely add it to the boil. I have the ability to do a PM that size so that shouldn't be an issue.

My other question (that I forgot to post before) is about obtaining the sourness. So, according to the recipe, the acid malt combined with the lactose and long fermenting and conditioning period will produce the sour nature of a flanders red, correct?

Thanks so much.

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Planning: Nutcastle Brown, Founder's Breakfast Stout
Primary: Apfelwein w/Cherry
Secondary: Flanders Red, ESB2, ESB3, Hobgoblin PM
Bottle: Black Beauty Honey Rye, Holiday Chestnut Ale, Grumpy Gnome IPA, Sumatran Espresso Stout, Apfelwein, All Jacked Up, Patriot's Amber, ESB1, Belgian Dubbel.

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Old 01-22-2009, 01:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
My other question (that I forgot to post before) is about obtaining the sourness. So, according to the recipe, the acid malt combined with the lactose and long fermenting and conditioning period will produce the sour nature of a flanders red, correct?
The acidulated malt does contribute some sourness, but it really comes from the souring organisms that are part of the Roeselare yeast strain. The long aging gives ample time for the souring bacteria to work.
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Old 01-22-2009, 02:18 PM   #5
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Perfect. Thank you so much. I forgot to mention the yeast strain in my summary of how the souring is produced. I feel more confident in making this now. Thanks again.

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Old 01-22-2009, 04:56 PM   #6
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I hope you've got a year to wait. I've followed jamil's instructions on fermenting out with WLP-001 or US-05 and then racking onto the Brett/Rosalare/Lambic whatever you want to use. It will take at least 4 months before it starts souring.

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Old 01-22-2009, 05:10 PM   #7
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Lactose is unfermentable by beer yeast. It will ferment in this recipe and is there precisely to insure that there is plenty for the other organisms to eat.

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Old 01-22-2009, 05:12 PM   #8
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I'm willing to wait. Sours are my favorite and it'll be worth it, as long as I don't screw it up.

Are you talking about repitching the Rosalare when racking to secondary?

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Old 01-22-2009, 05:16 PM   #9
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From what I understand, someone correct me if I am mistaken, there are certain Brett strains that will indeed eat lactose; which would increase the sourness in this beer.

Additionally, it could be that is the lactic bacterias, which I believe are in the Roselare blend, that will consume the lactose and convert it into an additional form of sourness.

edit: I guess I forgot to say that since it is a form of sourness, if it were me, I would add the lactose either in the boil or with the roselare blend.

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Old 01-22-2009, 05:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrico7812 View Post
I'm willing to wait. Sours are my favorite and it'll be worth it, as long as I don't screw it up.

Are you talking about repitching the Rosalare when racking to secondary?
There are two methods to pitching the Roselare blend in your Flanders.
For a little less sour, ferment using a yeast like 1056, US-05 or WLP001 then pitch the Roselare in the secondary. For a little more sour (probably closer to Gran Cru) pitch the Roselare in the primary after cooling. I have done the later in my Flander's Red but it sill has a good pellicle so I don't know how the results will be.

Lactose is not necessary but I believe it is there to feed the bacteria and brett during the long souring. The beer yeast cannot eat it. Therefore if you want to use Lactose (or Maltodextrin) add it to the end of the boil.

This will take the better part of the year to ferment. I pitched my bugs in July and still have a good pellicle.

Craig
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