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Old 01-29-2012, 10:13 PM   #1
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Default Help with this Octoberfest/Marzen....for March then lager

Hey guys,

I have this recipe I cobbled together from various sources and now can't seem to find the original. I need some help, I'd like to brew in March and lager through the summer (in fridge) then have it ready for the start of football season and Octoberfest. I'll be getting the ingredients soon and just want to be prepared..... Here is the recipe.

OCTOBERFEST/MARZEN
6# Munich LME
1# Pilsner malt
.5# Vienna malt
.5# Biscuit malt
.5# Crystal 120L
.5# German Dark Munich malt

1oz Tettnang @ 60 min
1.25oz Hallertauer @ 60 min

Wyeast 2633 Octoberfest

This is my first lager so I guess I'm asking about potential surpises.....

My questions are:

1. How long should I steep? Temp and water amount? I usually do 155* and 30 min with 2 gallons with my ales....is this o.k. with a lager?
2. My hops IBU's....I put it through Hopville, and it says 25.5IBU for a 3gal 60 min boil....does this sound right?
3. Anything else I should be concentrating on for my first lager?.... the only thing I'm sure of is that I'm not sure of anything but trying to RDWHAHB

Thanks in advance for all the help, it's great to be a part of this forum...

V

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Old 01-29-2012, 10:35 PM   #2
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IBU would depend on the alpha acid of the hops in question as well as the time in the boil. That being said, 25 IBU is ok for a Marzen, but I would be careful not to go over that if you want to stay true to the character of that beer.

A 30 minutes steep at 155 with those grains is essentially a mini-mash, that should work perfect provided the Pilsner malt is fully modified. If you can't get a fully modified Pilsner malt, either use a standard 2row malt or bump up your Vienna for more malt character.

Can you link to the extract you are going to use? Is it made with 100% Munich malt?

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Old 01-31-2012, 05:59 PM   #3
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This is the Munich I have....& it's 40% Munich and 60% 2 row....is this o.k.?
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/produc...ducts_id=11514

When you say "bump up"...about how much? Maybe .75#? I would like more of a malt character in this beer.....

Thanks for the info wailing...

Voodoo

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Old 01-31-2012, 06:43 PM   #4
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Ok, I see... with that percentage of Munich in the extract, you probably want more in the mash if you want a real, malty Marzen. (I do mine with 100% Munich 7 or Munich 10) AHS sells a nice Munich 7. If it were me making this beer, I would ditch the Pilsner malt and the Vienna and go for 1.5-2# Munich 7 instead. The other specialty malts should help make up the difference. Anyway, that is my 2 cents.

FWIW, I have a Marzen on tap now, 100% Munich 7 (SG 1.060) 22 Ibu, 1/2 oz Spalt to finish, fermed with S23

Mind your fem temps and you will have a fantastic beer

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Old 01-31-2012, 09:29 PM   #5
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Overall, I think your recipe looks good, and you'll make a great beer with what you've got listed. That said, here are a few suggestions...

I like my Oktoberfests to be malty but relatively dry, so my preferred recipe is just 70% Munich malt and 30% Pils. If your palate is similar, then consider getting rid of the Crystal 120. It might leave more of an intense residual sweetness than you want. If you do prefer some up-front sweetness, though, try a lower-Lovibond malt like CaraMunich II instead. If you can't get it, then Crystal 40 or Crystal 60 would be decent substitutes.

I second wailingguitar's suggestion to replace the Pils and Vienna with all Munich. You could probably ditch the Biscuit malt in that case as well.

Be sure to make a good-sized yeast starter. Lagers need more yeast than ales to get off to a healthy start, especially if you pitch at fermentation temps.

That's my two cents. It's your beer, so take what you like and ignore the rest. Have fun brewing!

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Old 01-31-2012, 11:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wailingguitar View Post
Ok, I see... with that percentage of Munich in the extract, you probably want more in the mash if you want a real, malty Marzen. (I do mine with 100% Munich 7 or Munich 10) AHS sells a nice Munich 7. If it were me making this beer, I would ditch the Pilsner malt and the Vienna and go for 1.5-2# Munich 7 instead. The other specialty malts should help make up the difference. Anyway, that is my 2 cents.

FWIW, I have a Marzen on tap now, 100% Munich 7 (SG 1.060) 22 Ibu, 1/2 oz Spalt to finish, fermed with S23

Mind your fem temps and you will have a fantastic beer
I looked at AHS and could only see the Munich that I have...am I missing something? Could you link me? So you are saying 1.5 -2 # of Munich 7 WITH the 6# I already have and ditch the Pils and Vienna? right? BTW could I just up the German Dark Munich to say 1#? What would that do?
SOOOOOO many choices....

Thanks again...seriously....
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NochEineMassBitte View Post
Overall, I think your recipe looks good, and you'll make a great beer with what you've got listed. That said, here are a few suggestions...

I like my Oktoberfests to be malty but relatively dry, so my preferred recipe is just 70% Munich malt and 30% Pils. If your palate is similar, then consider getting rid of the Crystal 120. It might leave more of an intense residual sweetness than you want. If you do prefer some up-front sweetness, though, try a lower-Lovibond malt like CaraMunich II instead. If you can't get it, then Crystal 40 or Crystal 60 would be decent substitutes.

I second wailingguitar's suggestion to replace the Pils and Vienna with all Munich. You could probably ditch the Biscuit malt in that case as well.

Be sure to make a good-sized yeast starter. Lagers need more yeast than ales to get off to a healthy start, especially if you pitch at fermentation temps.

That's my two cents. It's your beer, so take what you like and ignore the rest. Have fun brewing!
Thanks....sooo I'm getting the feeling the pils and vienna aren't needed. The reason I added them was this article. I have had some really good Marzen and Octoberfests and REALLY like the bigger sweeter malt profile with a hint of hop aroma and taste. Sooooo many damn choices...arrrrgh

Thanks again for all the help,....seriously it is appreciated....

http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2009/1...-beer-recipes/

V
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoocurt View Post
I looked at AHS and could only see the Munich that I have...am I missing something? Could you link me? So you are saying 1.5 -2 # of Munich 7 WITH the 6# I already have and ditch the Pils and Vienna? right? BTW could I just up the German Dark Munich to say 1#? What would that do?
SOOOOOO many choices....

Thanks again...seriously....
Right... Of course, with 6# of LME and any convertible grain, you're going to have a pretty good gravity... maybe 1.055 or so (depending on mash efficiency) + a little extra if you use the dark munich and crystal...

Also, be sure to check the alpha acid content of the hops, you don't want your IBUs too high... 20 is nice, 25 is pushing it. Minimal flavoring hops too (0-1/2oz) if you want it authentic

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/produc...products_id=87
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoocurt View Post
Thanks....sooo I'm getting the feeling the pils and vienna aren't needed. The reason I added them was this article. I have had some really good Marzen and Octoberfests and REALLY like the bigger sweeter malt profile with a hint of hop aroma and taste. Sooooo many damn choices...arrrrgh

Thanks again for all the help,....seriously it is appreciated....

http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2009/1...-beer-recipes/

V
One thing you could do is make a few variations on this recipe between now and March, but ferment them as ales with a clean yeast like US-05. They'll be ready quickly, and you can see what kind of grain bill you prefer before you brew your lager in March. It's much easier to understand the contributions from the various malts when you've brewed with them yourself and tasted the finished product.

The bulk of your fermentables come from the munich extract, so you don't need to stress terribly over the combination of pils, vienna, and munich malts that comprise your mini-mash. They'll be relatively minor in the final beer. The crystal and biscuit specialty malts will be much more noticeable. Pils won't offer a whole lot of malty flavor in this beer, which is why I would get rid of it. Any combination of Vienna and Munich, though, will give you some malt flavor. If you favor the Vienna, you'll also get some toasted notes.

Like wailingguitar said, watch your IBUs and fermentation temps, and really, whatever malt profile you choose is going to turn out a fantastic beer that you'll be proud to serve your buddies next football season.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:18 PM   #10
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Thanks Noche,

Thanks for the great information and awesome idea on brewing early and trying it out....Geez good idea....

As usual this site and it's members are always willing to help and give great ideas, I think i'm going to drop the Hallertau to 1oz and 30 minutes and see if that changes much...dropping the Pils and Vienna, keeping the Crystal (maybe lower lovibond, think I have some 60) and Biscuit and adding the Munich 7 by 1#....I think that will about cover it....

Again thanks, keep the ideas coming!!!!!

V

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