Flaked Oats in Extract Beer

Jewrican · 10-31-2008, 08:22 PM

So i am trying to make this recipe:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f67/black-pearl-porter-ag-24243/

but in an extract version. The issue is that apparently you cannot use oats without mashing them with barley malt....

How to Brew - By John Palmer - Other Grains and Adjuncts

soooo.. .should i just add the oats in with barley at 153 degrees for 30 minutes remove them bring the temp to 170 and dunk them in a few times to simulate the sparge?

Would this work? How much barley should i use? How will it affect the recipe? Should i just remove the oats?

ifishsum · 10-31-2008, 09:39 PM

Are you converting it to a mini-mash? Post up the recipe that you plan to use and we can help more...but yes, I think you'll want to mash the flaked oats with some 2 row barley (and some of the other grains called for) for 45 minutes-1 hr (I'm not sure 30 minutes would be enough) for conversion. Basically like a steep except with more controlled amounts of water - about 1.25qts of water for every 1 lb of grain. You can do it in a grain bag and sparge in another kettle of 170 degree water ala Deathbrewer's tutorial.

When I do partial mashes I often add 2 lbs of 2-row to the mash and take out 1.5 lbs of LME (or 1.2 lbs if you're using dry), shooting for a 4-5 lb mash. I'm not sure about the minimum amount of 2-row you would need to convert the oats though. With the other specialty malts in that recipe already plus the oats that would be a pretty large PM the way I usually do it...

Someone else may have a better solution for you. I usually just substitute most of the base malt (all but 1.5-2 lbs) with extract and mash everything else in the recipe at about the same ratios, but with that porter I would be mashing 7 lbs of grain which is too much for my current setup.

Jewrican · 10-31-2008, 10:02 PM

the recipe is the first link in my post.

In all honesty I dont know the technical term for it, but when using munich i know that i cant just keep steep it. With that said i was planning to bring the water to 153 and let it sit for 30 mintues (you recommend 45) and then bring the temp up to 170 and kinda tea bag it (insert joke here) to simulate a sparge.

In the end i would expect to do the above same with 2 lbs of munich, the specialty grains and possibly the oats/barley (based on your opinions). I guess i will have to keep in mind my boil size for that then as i would need to use 1 - 1.25 quarts per pound (is that right?).

I am just concerned that the barley will throw this proven recipe off.. i am just wondering if i should just remove the oats. If i do, should i increase the malto-dextrin for mouthfeel (and by how much) or let it be?

Thanks for any additional help you can give.

ifishsum · 10-31-2008, 11:15 PM

I saw the original recipe, which was all grain - you said you were brewing an extract version, which I didn't see on there - so I was asking how you were going to make it as an extract.

I could be wrong, but I don't think Munich has enough diastatic power to convert both itself and the flaked oats, and I was suggesting that you probably also need a couple of pounds of base malt (pale 2 row) to ensure complete conversion - as base malts will have a surplus of enzymes for the oats. Pale barley malt (2-row) is part of the original recipe so it won't throw it off, but removing the oats would certainly change it.

Sparging really needs to be done in plain water to be effective in pulling out the remaining sugars in the grain. So this must be planned for with regards to boil size - for instance with my setup I can mash about 5 lbs of grain so I use about 6.5 qts of water for mashing and another 6-6.5 for the sparge, which gives me 3 gallons to boil (the grain soaks up some of the water). Then I combine the mash runnings and sparge water, add maybe 1/3-1/4 of my extract and start the boil (I add the rest of the extract near the end of the boil).

I'm not an expert myself, so maybe someone else will also weigh in on this. I have converted several AG recipes to extract/PM with good success. My reference for learning how to convert AG recipes to partial mashes was a helpful document I saw someone else posted here at HBT:

converting all grain recipes to extract/partial mash (PDF)

The way I'd convert the AG recipe you linked to would be:

2.00 lbs Pale malt (2 row)
2.00 lbs Munich malt - 10L
1.00 lbs Caramel/Crystal malt - 30L
1.00 lbs Chocolate malt
1.00 lbs Oats, flaked
4.50 lbs Light liquid malt extract (or 3.70 lbs of light DME)

**Malticulous** · 10-31-2008, 11:40 PM

I just heat the grain bag in the pot with just over a quart of watter per pound of grain then put the bag in a strainer and sparge with watter from another pot to boil level. I think it came close to 60%.

I have seen recipes that use oats as a steeping grain but it wont add any fermentables and I doubt it has the desired effect. I did the extract Irish Drought Ale from Northern Brewer and it has some in it. I'd like to do the all grain version to compare.

For that recipe I'd use;

5 pounds light DME
2 pounds Munich Malt
1.00 lbs Caramel/Crystal malt - 30L
1.00 lb Chocolate Malt
1.00 lb Oats

I think the Munich will do the trick. Trading some DME or Munich for 2 or 6 row may be better but it's already a five pound mini-mash.

Also if your not doing a full boil add a little more hops.

Bob · 11-01-2008, 10:53 AM

It's going to be really tough partial-mashing this; it's a lot of grain for a partial mash.

That said, read this thread. DeathBrewer's technique just plain works.

Bob

Fat Guy Brewing · 11-03-2008, 03:07 AM

$.02
I used 1 lb of flaked oats in a brew by boiling it with the extract, trying to do the same thing as you. Its like oatmeal so it soaked up the wort and didn't give it back. The final amount of wort was low because of this and so I also got a lower OG than I was expecting. Then it made the beer very cloudy. I was on a thread a short time ago and someone said that even steeping flaked oats in an extract recipe will make the beer cloudy. I wouldn't do it again with an extract recipe.