First wort hopping an extract w/ grains kit?

**nutty_gnome** · 10-01-2009, 12:36 PM

I was surprised to find that a search of this forum did not bring this up.

I've been doing no-chill brewing. And part of no-chill that is juggling your hop additions to account for extended high-temp contact with the wort and higher utilization. Generally you add hops later in the boil to account for this.

My question is about flavor hop additions. It has been suggested that the brewer should use a 'first wort hop' process to lock the flavor in for the no-chill process. My trouble is that first wort hopping seems to be associated with the all grain brewing technique. How can extract brewers also use this technique? Is there a good process out there?

Can they simply go in with the steeping grains at 155 deg F for 30 mins and hope that all works out? Or would one make a warm wort solution by dissolving some extract in 155 deg F water and then adding hops and letting that sit a bit?

Has anyone done this or know where to look to learn more for extract brewers?

Synovia · 10-01-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutty_gnome

Can they simply go in with the steeping grains at 155 deg F for 30 mins and hope that all works out? Or would one make a warm wort solution by dissolving some extract in 155 deg F water and then adding hops and letting that sit a bit?

Throwing them in with the steeping grains is probably the closest thing I would think.

tincob · 12-05-2009, 03:28 AM

So I've been exchanging some notes with N_G. Actually, it's mostly me asking questions and N_G answering them.

I did a little research about FWH with extract and based upon what I read, here's what I plan to do with the Hop Head Double IPA extract kit with steeping grains from Midwest.

Original hop schedule
60 mins: 1 oz Chinook
45 mins: 1/2 oz Cascade
30 mins: 1/2 oz Centennial
20 mins: 1/2 oz Cascade
10 mins: 1/2 oz Centennial
5 mins: 1 oz Crystal
Dry Hop: 2 oz whole hops

My revised process:
- Steep the specialty grains for 30 mins in 2.5~3 gals
- Add the extracts maintaining the 155 deg F temp
- FWH at 155 deg F for 20-30 mins
- Add heated water to bring to full volume (~6 gals)
- Bring up to boil, and proceed with the rest.

The question is whether I should add the 20, 10 and 5 min hops as FWH? The 5 min addition is for aroma so I wonder whether I should save it for the regular schedule?

Any advice or opinions?

gunnyg · 12-05-2009, 02:20 PM

From the book, Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher...

An interesting old technique has recently been rediscovered called First Wort Hopping...

...if you wanted to simulate this in an extract brewing method, the best thing would be to simmer a third of your first hop addition with a half-gallon, 2litres, of water and a dollop of extract added for about a half hour, then add the rest of the ingredients and brew as usual...There are lots of old techniques...
pages 52-53

tincob · 12-05-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnyg

From the book, Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher...

An interesting old technique has recently been rediscovered called First Wort Hopping...

...if you wanted to simulate this in an extract brewing method, the best thing would be to simmer a third of your first hop addition with a half-gallon, 2litres, of water and a dollop of extract added for about a half hour, then add the rest of the ingredients and brew as usual...There are lots of old techniques...
pages 52-53

gunnyg,

Thanks for replying.

As with all things associated with brewing, there seems to be multiple approaches to FWH.

So Randy Mosher seems to be recommending the addition of the bittering hops "... a third of your first hop addition..." for FWH.

Most of what I read on the internet (and taken with a bucket of salt) and John Palmer seem to recommend the addition of the finishing hops "... first wort hopping (FWH) consists of adding a large portion of the finishing hops to the boil kettle...."

I was attracted to FWH because I tend to like a smooth bitterness (oxymoron?) and a nice hop aroma in my IPA's. Maybe I'm tasting grassiness and equating it to a "bad" bitterness. Anyway, I'm still quite new at this and just trying to learn.

I'm not sure which of the two above approaches would better suit what I'm trying to accomplish.

**jeffmeh** · 12-05-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tincob

So I've been exchanging some notes with N_G. Actually, it's mostly me asking questions and N_G answering them.

I did a little research about FWH with extract and based upon what I read, here's what I plan to do with the Hop Head Double IPA extract kit with steeping grains from Midwest.

Original hop schedule
60 mins: 1 oz Chinook
45 mins: 1/2 oz Cascade
30 mins: 1/2 oz Centennial
20 mins: 1/2 oz Cascade
10 mins: 1/2 oz Centennial
5 mins: 1 oz Crystal
Dry Hop: 2 oz whole hops

My revised process:
- Steep the specialty grains for 30 mins in 2.5~3 gals
- Add the extracts maintaining the 155 deg F temp
- FWH at 155 deg F for 20-30 mins
- Add heated water to bring to full volume (~6 gals)
- Bring up to boil, and proceed with the rest.

The question is whether I should add the 20, 10 and 5 min hops as FWH? The 5 min addition is for aroma so I wonder whether I should save it for the regular schedule?

Any advice or opinions?

According to Pol's chart, you should add the 20 when you transfer the wort to the fermentor (at around 190F, I believe), the 10 as part of the first wort hopping, and the 5 as dry hopping.

I have my 5 dry hopping in a no-chill California Common as we speak.

tincob · 12-05-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffmeh

According to Pol's chart, you should add the 20 when you transfer the wort to the fermentor (at around 190F, I believe), the 10 as part of the first wort hopping, and the 5 as dry hopping.

I have my 5 dry hopping in a no-chill California Common as we speak.

But what if I'm not doing a no-chill for this?

It's my first IIPA, and my first FWH. Don't know if I want to add a no-chill as another first on top of the other two.

I do want to try no-chill on my next batch. I have the winpaks ready.

tincob · 12-15-2009, 06:48 PM

In case anyone's interested, I'm updating my experiences with FWH'ing an extract kit on this thread:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/first-wort-hopping-142913/index6.html#post1743008

Just begun the fermentation, so I should have results back in two months (4 weeks in primary, 4 weeks in bottle) or so.