feed back on wiesenbock extract recipe

D0ug · 10-24-2010, 01:04 PM

I tried this post in another forum and didn't get much feedback, although someone did give me some good tips on techique, always helpful.

Thought I'd try my luck here.

Grabbed a TrueBrew Hefeweisen kit recently, and since I'm always trying to make life more complicated I decided to try to up the abv on the finished product by throwing in some more DME. what I brewed looked like this:

6.6# Muntons Wheat LME
1# Muntons Wheat DME
1# Muntons Extra Light DME
2 oz Liberty dried hops
1/2 tsp Irish moss
Yeast: Fermentis Safbrew WB-06

(This recipe yeilds about 56:44 % ratio of wheat to barley malts)

Added 3.3# LME and 10z hops, boil 30 min (@0 min)

Added DME, LME, 10z hops, boil 10 min (@30 min)

added Irish moss, boiled 10 min.(@40 min)

Brought to 5 gal. in pail and water bath to 84*F

OG 1.069 adjusted to 60*F, which I think jsut puts it in bock territory.

Pitched yeast, and fermented in ambient temp of 64*F (it's gurggling happily now)
Hop and boil schedules from kit directions.

My question is, most of the extract recipes for a wiezenbock seem to include specailty grains in the boil, and this one has none. I know it will make beer, but I don't know how flat tasting, or lifeless will this brew be. What would you have done differently? What specialty grains would have helped this brew out?
What should I change in the future if trying this again?

Thanks

pericles · 10-25-2010, 01:12 PM

Yes, your OG puts your beer right on the low end of the BJCP's style guidelines for weizenbocks. Although Liberty isn't one of the four classic noble hops, I think it will go well with the weizenbock style (since it's a cross-breed from Hallertau, which IS one of the noble hops, and has most of the same characteristics.) Expect a spicy note from the liberty.

I'm concerned about two things: the first is that you seem to have boiled for only 40 minutes? Weizenbocks should have no DMS character, and that means you need a longer boil. I'd aim for 90 minutes for a really clean taste. 60 minutes is really the minimum for this style, and 40 is not long enough.

The second concern is exactly what you brought up: there's no specialty grains. You're going to retain some of the flavor from your wheat proteins, but the mouthfeel of your beer will be (I imagine) much smaller than the target for the style. In subsequent brews I'd consider adding caramunich, and maybe just a couple of ounces of light chocolate malt.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

D0ug · 10-25-2010, 01:27 PM

Thanks for the feedback pericles! The suggestions on spec. grains is exactly what I was hoping to see.

actually the boil was a bit longer, the recipe said something along the line of "The wort will foam up as you begin to boil. Reduce or remove from heat and foam will subside. Repeat until foaming stops then boil for 30 min"

I brought the wort to a hard boil by gradually increasing the heat and stirred it through this period and as it began to foam. I kept stirring until the foaming stopped and began my timing from there, so there is probably an extra 10-15 minutes of boil time there while it was foaming. The hop schedule is confusing the way I noted it too, the last hop addition was 20 min fro m the end, 10 min before the irish moss went in. So it was right around 50 min, around 60 or 65 if you include the boil time it was foaming.

Bad technique? Should I start my boil timer as soon as the boil starts, regardless of the foaming?

Thanks again for the feedback, definitely will try those grains next time! For a batch this size what would you consider appropriate? 0.5#caraminch? 1#?

pericles · 10-25-2010, 01:50 PM

The boil causes chemical reactions in the wort which require certain temperatures. For your style, the most important parts of the boil will probably be driving off DMS to get a cleaner taste, and sterilizing the wort. If you took the pot off the coil/burner to let the foam die down, it probably didn't cool enough to interfere with the sterilization process, but I think it probably didn't help the DMS at all. So the short answer is that for at least some aspects of your boil, you got a 65 minute boil, and for others you only got a 50 minute boil.

Regardless, for a weizenbock I'd aim for a 90 minute boil, where the water actually boils for 90 minutes. You're looking for a very clean taste, and a boil that's somewhere between 50-65 minutes really isn't going to get you there, especially if you're only doing a partial boil.

As for the foam, no, that's not a bad technique, but I would recommend that you buy a 7 gallon pot. You can do full boils that way, and you won't have to worry about foaming.

Last, as for specialty grains, I'd probably add a full pound of caramunich and two ounces of pale chocolate malt. (I said light before, I think. . . I meant pale.) That will give you a bigger mouthfeel and add a bready, toasty note that I think goes really nicely with this style.

D0ug · 10-25-2010, 04:43 PM

Great! Thanks again for the tips!

bknifefight · 10-25-2010, 05:20 PM

I'm curious what makes this a weizenbock above just a hefeweizen? I would imagine that you need some specialty grains to give it some color and nice malt flavor above the DME.

D0ug · 10-25-2010, 06:10 PM

I think it's a 'bock' because the OG was out of range for a Hefe, but in range for the weizenbock style.
The bock designation is in reference to the gravity, this link to the Home Brewing wiki descibes different weize styles. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Weizen I haven't done the maths to see if the IBU's or color would fall in the style ranges or not, but I knew that some of the other characteristics, such as mouth feel would not.

Hence the request for improvements. Unfortunately, due to monetary and temporal constraints (see what two toddlers and a mortgage gets you

), I will not be going AG for quite awhile and will have to sate my brew lust with extract based recipes for awhile longer yet.

'm not planning on entering any contests, I just like trying to produce something that is 1 enjoyable and 2 as close to style as I can get.

Definition of WISEACRE
: one who pretends to knowledge or cleverness; especially : smart aleck

The name says it all

bknifefight · 10-25-2010, 06:29 PM

Interesting, I thought the "bock" part of it would have had more of a distinction. Instead it's just a stronger Dunkel. You learn something every day!

dcp27 · 10-28-2010, 08:31 PM

if you're going for a weizenbock you need some munich or vienna in there, it can't really be called one otherwise.

D0ug · 10-28-2010, 10:27 PM

dcp27, thanks for the info.

Due to my lack of experience, finances, and time I am using extract based recipes. Given that, would you be able to make any recommendations? (Besides not trying this again until I know what I'm doing

)

I used muntons wheat lme, which is 65% wheat 35% ? barley (pale or light? dunno) would adding a few pounds on munich lme in place of the x-light dme help bring it closer to style? would it help enough? could I fake it by lengthening the boil time on the extract to carmalize the malts a little more?

any info is appreciated!