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-   -   Extract Pliny the Elder (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/extract-pliny-elder-346655/)

namyarb3 08-09-2012 05:13 PM

Extract Pliny the Elder
I'm going to brew this this coming weekend. :rockin:


My concern is that I am an extract brewer. Full boil, but extract. I have done the math for the 2-row for either LME(9.6lbs) or DME(7.2lbs). The crystal and cera will be steeped, and the dextrose will be a late addition. I am going to pitch (2) packets, dry, of S-05. Are two even necessary?

All I have read shows all grain recipe. They mash at adjusted temps to be able to finish around 1.010 or whatever.

Am I going to be able to hit that attenuation with extract? Lowest I've gotten was 1.014. Admittedly, all of my beers to date (8 whole batches:p) have started at, at least, 1.078. That may be my issue, too. Anything I can do in MY process to help get that low? More corn sugar?
Any info is appreciated, guys! Thanks!!

bobbrews 08-09-2012 05:27 PM

You don't need carapils when using extract. Carapils is already in the extract.

Two small packets of US-05 seems reasonable. I would make a WLP001 or WLP090 starter, but that's me. You'll need more sugar for an extract version. The 5% or so that the all grain version uses is not equally swappable. 10-15% corn sugar should do. The sugar will help dry out the beer, but you will be hard pressed to reach 1.010 FG with pure extract and steeping grains. The extract was probably mashed in the 152-155 F range, so you have no control over mash temp. Shoot for 1.071 OG including the late sugar addition, and see how far it attenuates after 3 weeks in the primary. Then, proceed with the dryhop.

I love PtE, but I don't agree with the clone's hop bill. I was awfully surprised when I saw the clone recipe the first time ~ 3.50 oz at 90 plus another 1.75 oz. of early/middle additions seems excessive, even for a lover of hops like me; especially since the human palate is unable to perceive more than 100 IBUs. I've always been a strong proponent of less hops early / more hops late. I feel you get more hop flavor/aroma that way with a much smoother, but still high bitterness. Choose your path. You can still exceed 100 theoretical IBUs by lessening the early hop additions a bit.

Lastly, you won't have to do a 90 minute boil. 60 minute is fine for extract. I would add half the extract with 15 minutes left in the boil to minimize caramelization and boost hop utilization. Go with Extra Light DME.

namyarb3 08-09-2012 05:47 PM

Holy crap! Thanks for all the info, bobbrews.
So just the 8oz of crystal45 for the steeping?
And 24-36oz of sugar?

bobbrews 08-09-2012 05:57 PM

80-86% Briess Golden Light DME (half added at 15 minutes left in the boil)
10-15% Corn Sugar (flameout addition to adjust gravity to 1.071 OG)
4-5% Crystal 45 (crushed & steeped for 30 min at 150-155 F)

namyarb3 08-09-2012 06:01 PM

I'm sorry for the stupid question(s)...
The % that is listed. Is that the % of total fermentables? In this recipes case, 13.75lbs, right?

bobbrews 08-09-2012 06:02 PM

Yes, add to equal 100% of total fermentables. The exact amount you use in lbs/oz depends on your batch size. Everything should equal 1.071 OG in the end before you pitch the yeast.

namyarb3 08-09-2012 06:03 PM

Thank you.

namyarb3 08-10-2012 06:36 PM

How come I don't need to do a 90min boil? What is the difference since I'm extract?
I like to be told what works best. i LOVE to know why!

bobbrews 08-10-2012 06:50 PM

Extract has been boiled already. Thus extended boil times are not required when using extract. You could even get away with 15-20 minutes if you wanted, hence late additions. The reason we suggest half at 60 and half at 15 is mainly for more hop utilization and less wort darkening.

NordeastBrewer77 08-10-2012 06:58 PM

Stellar advice, Bob! :mug: Totally agree that you need much more than the ~5% corn sugar in the AG recipe. Personally, I'd keep in around 12%, but I've never done an extract version of PtE, so that's generally speaking. I've brewed Pliny as an all grain, and I can say that I may use a bit more corn sugar and mash a bit lower than I did last time (finished at ~1.012).
The 90 min boil is to get good utilization of the bittering hops, and to drive off DMS, etc., which isn't needed for extract. You could probably get away with a much shorter boil, but you'd have to make up for it with adjustments to your hops schedule.
Bob's right, your palate won't perceive the difference in IBU much over ~130, but you do want tons of explosive hops aroma and flavor in a Pliny clone. PtE is listed at ~280 some IBU, you doubtfully will hit that, or need to for a good clone, but you'll want to push the ~150 IBU threshold, at least on paper, IMO.

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