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-   -   Double Pale Ale - High ABV (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/double-pale-ale-high-abv-361882/)

mancavebrew 10-18-2012 02:12 PM

Double Pale Ale - High ABV
 
Maybe someone can help me with an idea I have. I'm looking to make a higher gravity to drink for around end of December this year. I think the Double Dog Double Pale Ale is pretty good and could not find a clone for extract brewing anywhere.

I found this though:
http://beerutopia.com/2009/01/05/a-geek-tasting-double-dog-double-pale-ale/
Quote:

ABV:
11.5%

Plato:
24

IBUís:
85

Specialty Malts:
Light Crystal Malt

Hops:
Columbus, Worrior, Cascade

Process:
Double recipe of Pale Ale dry hopped with an insane amount of Cascade and Columbus hops.
I understand two main components of higher gravity is fermentable sugars and more (or higher tolerant) yeast.

So, in theory could I buy a typical american pale ale kit for 5 gallon batch and replace the yeast with a higher tolerance variety? Also, could I add perhaps 1-2lbs of honey (or perhaps another 3lb bag of LME) to create more fermentable sugars?

I haven't ventured too far from sticking with the box recipes so any help is appreciated.

inhousebrew 10-18-2012 02:32 PM

The easy way of going about this would be to just buy a high gravity kit. Perhaps a American Style Barleywine if you want high ABV and hops? Or maybe just a IIPA kit? Either of those would get you a pre-made recipe that has been tested and is known to produce good results.

Replacing the yeast alone isn't going to do anything. And you could up the DME or add honey but you would also need to increase the hops to maintain balance. I'd stick to another kit if you want to make a big beer for the first time. That said, make sure you have enough yeast, one package isn't enough!

mancavebrew 10-19-2012 01:57 PM

Thanks inhousebrew but I found it!

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_452_43_247&products_id= 11673

Quote:

Double Dog Double Pale Ale (Flying Dog) (23A) [02936]
$67.49
View below for options

Flying Dog Brewing Company. Frederick, Maryland.

Makes 5 US gallons

Fermentable Sugars:
Extract: 17 lb Liquid Malt Extract, 0.75 lb Base Grains, 1 lb Specialty Grains
Mini Mash: 15 lb Liquid Malt Extract, 2.5 lb Base Grains, 1 lb Specialty Grains
All Grain: 23.25 lb Base Grains, 1 lb Specialty Grains

It goes on to say I will need 2 packs of yeast, I will likely stick with the Wyeast Northwest Ale 1332. Also 17lbs of extract! This should be interesting :) If I do this I will update this thread with my results.

TheCarnie 10-19-2012 02:06 PM

Wow, nearly $70 for a 5 gallon extract kit! I don't think I could ever bring myself to pay that, yesterday I brewed a 10 gallon clone of "The Kaiser" imperial octoberfest by Avery for around $50.

mancavebrew 10-19-2012 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCarnie (Post 4513508)
Wow, nearly $70 for a 5 gallon extract kit! I don't think I could ever bring myself to pay that, yesterday I brewed a 10 gallon clone of "The Kaiser" imperial octoberfest by Avery for around $50.

what was your abv? this one is supposed to be 11.5% if it's true to the commercial version. and to buy it in the store it costs $10 for a 4 pack. I think I'm gonna give it a shot!

inhousebrew 10-19-2012 03:32 PM

Wow, you certainly found a big one! 11.5%!

So you were right initially when you said the basics are more fermentables and yeast but there's more to it than that. If you want to do this go for it but there are a few things to consider.

First is yeast. I'd go with the dry yeast and do two packages of 11.5 grams. Two packs of liquid yeast without a starter won't be enough to do the job right.
Second is yeast. You need to take care of it in fermentation. Aerating your yeast is key so before you pitch yeast shake the crap out of your fermenter, pour the wort back and forth a few times. If you don't know much about aerating do a search for it but yeast need oxygen in the wort to reproduce correctly.
Third is yeast. It needs to be in a regulated temp for this big of a beer. Do a search for swamp coolers if your ambient temp of wherever you ferment is above 70*. Also, I'd use a blowoff tube right from the get go to avoid a probable mess.
Fourth and finally is time. This will take awhile to ferment. Give it three to four weeks and then some time to age too. Dry hop the week before bottling.

I say go for it but do it right. When I first started I made a bunch of crappy big beers from extract because I didn't use enough yeast, didn't aerate, didn't control temp and didn't sanitize well. It can be done, but it's tougher than a normal beer.

mancavebrew 10-19-2012 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inhousebrew (Post 4513791)
Wow, you certainly found a big one! 11.5%!

So you were right initially when you said the basics are more fermentables and yeast but there's more to it than that. If you want to do this go for it but there are a few things to consider.

First is yeast. I'd go with the dry yeast and do two packages of 11.5 grams. Two packs of liquid yeast without a starter won't be enough to do the job right.
Second is yeast. You need to take care of it in fermentation. Aerating your yeast is key so before you pitch yeast shake the crap out of your fermenter, pour the wort back and forth a few times. If you don't know much about aerating do a search for it but yeast need oxygen in the wort to reproduce correctly.
Third is yeast. It needs to be in a regulated temp for this big of a beer. Do a search for swamp coolers if your ambient temp of wherever you ferment is above 70*. Also, I'd use a blowoff tube right from the get go to avoid a probable mess.
Fourth and finally is time. This will take awhile to ferment. Give it three to four weeks and then some time to age too. Dry hop the week before bottling.

I say go for it but do it right. When I first started I made a bunch of crappy big beers from extract because I didn't use enough yeast, didn't aerate, didn't control temp and didn't sanitize well. It can be done, but it's tougher than a normal beer.

Great advice... thanks! So far in the first 5 batches I've made, I have been shaking the fermenter a lot before locking the lid on. So far no problems with any beers. Maybe I'll get one of those aquarium pumps but haven't looked into it much. Our temps can vary but I'll see if I can maintain the temps more closely as you stated above.

But whats the difference between the Wyeast Northern Ale 1332 and dry yeast? The dry yeast is half as much.

inhousebrew 10-19-2012 06:04 PM

The reason I said use the dry yeast instead of the liquid yeast is simply because there is a lot more of it in a package. Why they do this I don't really know but both Wyeast and White Labs come with about a hundred billion cells which sounds like a lot but isn't enough for a beer above 1.060 (sometimes lower depending on how old they are). Can one package finish the job in a normal batch? Yes, but when yeast are stressed out and when they have to reproduce over and over and over again to get to the correct amount they put out some nasty byproducts that can diminish the quality of your beer. That brings me to my next point, can you underpitch a big beer (11% most definitely falls under this category) and have the yeast finish the job? Probably not. Most likely they will stall out leaving you with a overly sweet product with a bunch of off flavors. Ask me how I know this from when I first started....

Anyways; the 11.5g packages of Safale-05 are monsters. The can function at high alcohol contents, they chew through fermentable sugar for breakfast and there is just a ton of cells in those packages. Still, you should pitch two. Check this out:

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

A 11% beer is probably around 1.100-1.110 in terms of gravity.

With the liquid yeast you would need to buy a ton of packages (the above calculator says four assuming they are fresh) or you would need to make a yeast starter. Again, if you don't know what that is do some research but basically you need to mix the yeast in with a small low gravity starter beer so the yeast can reproduce to the number you need. I'd say save that for latter and work with dry yeast for this monster because it's easier and the Safale-05 is a pretty solid option.

inhousebrew 10-19-2012 06:12 PM

And now that I look at that Northwest Ale it has a low attenuation and high flocculation which I won't get into (read: look it up if you want) but this sounds bad for a big beer like this. I don't know why they picked that yeast because it seems difficult to get the end result you would want.

So, as you can gather, I've made my share of crappy extract "big beers" in the past. Let me know if you have any questions. I don't want to discourage because it's fun to experiment but, just know this is a bit different than brewing a Pale Ale and seventy dollars is a lot so make sure you do everything you can to get it right.

TheCarnie 10-19-2012 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mancavebrew (Post 4513617)
what was your abv? this one is supposed to be 11.5% if it's true to the commercial version. and to buy it in the store it costs $10 for a 4 pack. I think I'm gonna give it a shot!

http://averybrewing.com/brewery/recipes-for-homebrewers/
Just over 9% @1.085. Just my opinion, expensive.


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