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Old 02-08-2011, 09:16 PM   #1
Cranny04
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Default DFH 60 min clone. Late extract add?

Hey all, I'm going to be attempting a DFH 60 min IPA clone for my third brew.

I'll be using this recipe:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/dogf...extract-25709/

I'm considering adding the extract at the end of the boil.

Any advice as to why I should or shouldn't do this?
Also if your in favor of the late add; how should I do it?

Thanks

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Old 02-08-2011, 09:26 PM   #2
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If you are going to follow a recipe, your best bet is to do what the recipe designers suggest. Here, since Yooper doesn't mention a late extract addition, I would assume that she intends everything to go in at the beginning.

If you are designing your own recipes, you can start weighing the pluses and minuses of early vs. late additions. But I wouldn't recommend changing somebody else's recipe blindly without good reason.

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Old 02-08-2011, 09:58 PM   #3
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Thanks, according to my brew bud I'm getting to ambitious. I'll brew the recipe this time and maybe try a late add next time I brew this recipe..

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Old 02-08-2011, 10:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranny04
Thanks, according to my brew bud I'm getting to ambitious. I'll brew the recipe this time and maybe try a late add next time I brew this recipe..
The really question is...what do you hope to accomplish with late addition?

Edit: I don't mean that to be snarky. Late addition has effects, but those effects are relatively subtle and it is important to understand what you're trying to do before you make changes. Good luck!
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:52 PM   #5
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I made a dogfish head 90 min clone recently (which is essentially the same as the 60, just strong) and I did a late addition (it was a partial mash). I'm not sure I'd do it again though.

Here is what you have to be aware of:
- If your addition is DME and you do it at the end of your boil, you better have a whisk to help you get all that DME to dissolve. I did a 5lb DME addition after I stopped the boil and I almost didn't get all the DME to dissolve.
- If you do your extract addition late in the boil but before the end, it will likely stop your boil anywhere from 2-10 minutes depending on how much extract you added and how powerful your burner is. This could effect other aspects of your boil (eg hop utilization).
- They say late extract additions will produce a beer of a better flavor and lighter color. If you add your extract at the begininng of the boil, the extract will caramelize and produce a different flavor and darker color. This is the reason people prefer late additions.
- A late addition will change the gravity of your boil and so you will need to recalculate your hop utilization.

Finally, an accurate dogfish head IPA clone must use some amber malt in it to get the right flavor. (about 10% if I remember correctly). I'd use 90% pilsner (or pale) extract and 10% amber extract.

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Old 02-08-2011, 11:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gio View Post
- They say late extract additions will produce a beer of a better flavor and lighter color.
I think most people would say different flavor, not better flavor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gio View Post
If you add your extract at the begininng of the boil, the extract will caramelize and produce a different flavor and darker color. This is the reason people prefer late additions.
- A late addition will change the gravity of your boil and so you will need to recalculate your hop utilization.
Both of these are reasons that I'd suggest following the recipe. Except in the lightest pilsners, some degree of darkening is pretty much always desired. If you do a late addition when the recipe designer was not expecting it, you'll get less carmelization (actually, melanoidin production) than you should. Often, if a recipe calls for late addition, it will have more crystal malts (for example) to achieve a similar effect. Same goes for hops, though there is some thinking lately that the conventional wisdom about the relationship between gravity and hop utilization might be based on some false premises. If you're doing a late addition, you're going to get more hop bitterness than the recipe designer intended.

Quote:
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Finally, an accurate dogfish head IPA clone must use some amber malt in it to get the right flavor. (about 10% if I remember correctly). I'd use 90% pilsner (or pale) extract and 10% amber extract.
It's needlessly confusing that this is true, but amber malt is different than amber extract. Most amber extract is just 2-row plus crystal60. Amber malt, as far as I know, isn't made into extract by anyone.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:19 PM   #7
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I think it'd be great to add 1/2 the extract at the end of the boil! I think you'd get "brighter" hop flavor, lighter color, and a firmer bitterness. Do it!

Edit- and NO amber extract! Light DME only. The extract recipe uses crystal while the AG recipe does not, because amber malt doesn't come in extract. Amber malt is NOT amber extract so don't sub that!

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Old 02-09-2011, 03:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalFet View Post
I think most people would say different flavor, not better flavor.



Both of these are reasons that I'd suggest following the recipe. Except in the lightest pilsners, some degree of darkening is pretty much always desired. If you do a late addition when the recipe designer was not expecting it, you'll get less carmelization (actually, melanoidin production) than you should. Often, if a recipe calls for late addition, it will have more crystal malts (for example) to achieve a similar effect. Same goes for hops, though there is some thinking lately that the conventional wisdom about the relationship between gravity and hop utilization might be based on some false premises. If you're doing a late addition, you're going to get more hop bitterness than the recipe designer intended.



It's needlessly confusing that this is true, but amber malt is different than amber extract. Most amber extract is just 2-row plus crystal60. Amber malt, as far as I know, isn't made into extract by anyone.
Oops, I've never used amber extract so I didn't realize that. I don't think you can steep amber malt so I guess you can't use it in an extract recipe. I would try doing a partial mash (brew-in-a-bag is easiest) instead of the all extract version as I don't think the extract recipe will give you the flavor you want.
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranny04 View Post
Hey all, I'm going to be attempting a DFH 60 min IPA clone for my third brew.

I'll be using this recipe:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/dogf...extract-25709/

I'm considering adding the extract at the end of the boil.

Any advice as to why I should or shouldn't do this?
Also if your in favor of the late add; how should I do it?

Thanks
I brewed this recipe and am currently drinking them. I used 9.9 lbs of extra light LME which came in (3) 3.3lb cans. I added 2 at the beginning and the last can at flameout. My goal was to make the color lighter since extract can be darker than usual. The color matched the DFH version spot on.

Im sure you already know this based on reading all the comments in that thread, but it is a damn good beer!
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brew2enjoy View Post
I brewed this recipe and am currently drinking them. I used 9.9 lbs of extra light LME which came in (3) 3.3lb cans. I added 2 at the beginning and the last can at flameout. My goal was to make the color lighter since extract can be darker than usual. The color matched the DFH version spot on.

Im sure you already know this based on reading all the comments in that thread, but it is a damn good beer!
I just bottled Yoopers 60 min recipe and it was much darker then I had expected. I also used 9.9 lbs of LME, next time I will do a late addition similar to yours.

It tasted awesome though!!!
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