Electric Brewing Supply 30A BCS Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Extract Brewing > Can't I cool wort by adding cold water?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-28-2011, 02:54 PM   #21
shoestealer17
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 116
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Don't you need to let the wort sit still while cooling it for a proper cold break? Doest sound like the right stuff will come out of solution if the wort is being mixed up while cooling, at least during the first part of the cooling

__________________
shoestealer17 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-28-2011, 04:51 PM   #22
windbreaker123
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: bfe, oh
Posts: 270
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

Here is a free read if you don't have it already. http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter7-4.html Place the pot in a sink or tub filled with cold/ice water that can be circulated around the hot pot. As mentioned in the previous chapter, it is best to keep the pot lid on, but if you are careful you can speed up the cooling by stirring. Gently stir the wort in a circular manner so the maximum amount of wort is moving against the sides of the pot. Minimize splashing to avoid oxidation. Don't let water from your hands drip inside the pot; this could be a source of contamination. If the cooling water gets warm, replace with colder water. The wort should cool to 80°F in about 30 minutes. When the pot is barely warm to the touch, the temperature is in the right range.

Ice

People often wonder about adding ice directly to the cooling wort. This idea works well if you remember a couple key points.

* Never use commercial ice. It can harbor dormant bacteria that could spoil your beer.
* Always boil the water before freezing it in an airtight container (like Tupperware). It must be airtight because most freezers also harbor dormant bacteria.
* If the ice will not directly contact the wort, (i.e. you are using a frozen plastic soda bottle or other container in the wort) make sure you sanitize the outside of the bottle first before you put it in the wort.

__________________
windbreaker123 is offline
criticalbrewpath Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-28-2011, 07:55 PM   #23
MrStrangeBrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 187
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

when i brew extract i usually just fill my fermenter, typically a glass carboy, with 4 gallons or so of room temp water. when im done with my boil i turn the flame off and pour it right into the water and that usually cools it right down to pitching temp. are you doing a full boil?

__________________
MrStrangeBrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-28-2011, 08:54 PM   #24
adagiogray
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Blacklick, OH
Posts: 78
Liked 5 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev2010 View Post
The reason you don't want to add cold water to a hot wort is hot-side aeration. You will probably introduce oxygen into the beer.

Isn't aeration and adding oxygen to the wort at the beginning a *good* thing?
__________________
adagiogray is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-28-2011, 09:40 PM   #25
Captain Damage
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lowell, Massachusetts
Posts: 1,231
Liked 81 Times on 69 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
The reason you don't want to add cold water to a hot wort is hot-side aeration. You will probably introduce oxygen into the beer.
Dr Charles Bamforth has pretty well exposed HSA as a myth. He talks about it in one of his BrewStrong interviews, and mentions that some major commercial brewers actually deliberately bubble air thru hot/warm wort.
__________________

Stop using so much caramel malt. Your beer will thank you.
(yes, Carapils is a caramel malt...so is Special B)

FERMENTING

BOTTLED
pujwI HIq Mild Ale
KPA Khitomer Pale Ale

Captain Damage is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-28-2011, 10:00 PM   #26
Rev2010
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bayonne, NJ
Posts: 1,768
Liked 84 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 269

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Damage View Post
Dr Charles Bamforth has pretty well exposed HSA as a myth. He talks about it in one of his BrewStrong interviews, and mentions that some major commercial brewers actually deliberately bubble air thru hot/warm wort.
I just Googled it and I found the podcast. This is what it says in the description:

"Dr Bamforth explains some of the myths and legends surrounding the controversial topic and instructs brewers on how to deal with HSA based on his own extensive research"

It says he explains some of the myths, not that it's all a myth. I honestly don't have the time right now to listen to it but all I'll say is there are dozens of articles about it. If he says it's all a myth then I wonder why the whole brewing community hasn't accepted and adjusted to it and why books still teach the same thing. Not saying I don't believe it, just that every time we turn around someone else is stating something is a myth due to their experimenting. When I get a moment I'll give that podcast a listen.

*EDIT - This is from Palmer's book and is still in the latest edition albeit written a little more thoroughly in the book:

"You should not aerate when the wort is hot, or even warm. Aeration of hot wort will cause the oxygen to chemically bind to various wort compounds. Over time, these compounds will break down, freeing atomic oxygen back into the beer where it can oxidize the alcohols and hop compounds producing off-flavors and aromas like wet cardboard or sherry-like flavors. The generally accepted temperature cutoff for preventing hot wort oxidation is 80°F.

Oxidation of your wort can happen in several ways. The first is by splashing or aerating the wort while it is hot. Other beginning-brewing books advocate pouring the hot wort after the boil into cold water in the fermenter to cool it and add oxygen for the yeast. Unfortunately the wort may still be hot enough to oxidize when it picks up oxygen from the splashing. Pouring it down the side of the bucket to minimize splashing doesn't really help either since this increases the surface area of the wort exposed to the air. Thus it is important to cool the wort rapidly to below 80°F to prevent oxidation, and then aerate it to provide the dissolved oxygen that the yeast need. Cooling rapidly between 90 and 140°F is important because this temperature region is ideal for bacterial growth to establish itself in the wort."

Again, I'd like to know why it's a myth when it's still claimed today supposedly using science as a result - in this example the oxygen binding chemically to certain compounds and later breaking down into the beer.


Rev.
__________________
Rev2010 is online now
criticalbrewpath Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-28-2011, 10:21 PM   #27
IffyG
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Nashville
Posts: 1,390
Liked 60 Times on 49 Posts
Likes Given: 20

Default

FWIW, I interpreted Bamforth's statements to mean HSA is real, but a healthy vigorous fermentation takes care of most of it for you. Therefore you have about a hundred other things to worry about before HSA should concern you.

__________________
IffyG is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-29-2011, 12:42 AM   #28
Captain Damage
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lowell, Massachusetts
Posts: 1,231
Liked 81 Times on 69 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

OK, "myth" was a poorly chosen descriptor on my part. My takeaway from the interview was that HSA is not something homebrewers who are not wantonly abusing their beers need to be overly concerned about. Rev2010, you've clearly done much more research on the subject than I. I have no interest in turning this into an argument.

__________________

Stop using so much caramel malt. Your beer will thank you.
(yes, Carapils is a caramel malt...so is Special B)

FERMENTING

BOTTLED
pujwI HIq Mild Ale
KPA Khitomer Pale Ale

Captain Damage is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-29-2011, 05:36 AM   #29
quadbikerjosh
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: carson city, nevada
Posts: 98
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

i used to just top off out of the tap, it worked fine for cooling the beer down. i was having some clarity issues however. so all i did was make a home made immersion chiller. it was simple enough.

if you go to the hardware store you can get about 30' of 3/8" soft copper refridgerator tubing, about 9' of high temp siphon hose, three small hose clamps, and a faucet to 3/8" barb adapter all for about $35. i wrapped the copper tubing tightly around my corny keg (a pot would work well too) i kept about a foot and a half of the tubing at the bottom of the coil straight, then carefully bent that straight up thru the center. clamp 3 1/2' of siphon hose on each end,and presto $35 wort chiller that took me about 15 muinutes to make. works like a champ. mine chilled 6 gallons of wort from 180F down to 72F in about 20 muinutes with no ice bath and somewhat warm tap water.

__________________
quadbikerjosh is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-29-2011, 03:03 PM   #30
Rev2010
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bayonne, NJ
Posts: 1,768
Liked 84 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 269

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Damage View Post
I have no interest in turning this into an argument.
Nah man, not really trying to argue with you. It's just that every time we turn around someone is claiming something is a myth. If so many things are myths than what would be the causes of all the various off flavors the BJCP judges look for, just chance? The other aspect is I somehow find it hard to believe people have been brewing for so long and only find out now that hot-side aeration is a myth. I mean, wouldn't others have tested by intentionally aerating one batch of hot wort and not another and compare the taste?

I did listen to the whole podcast afterward and I took away the same thing as IffyG - he says it's real but a healthy yeast pitch and fermentation takes care of most of it. He's a renowned brewing scientist they say so he just may be right. The only other thing I'll point out though is even in all scientific fields scientists are often quite in disagreement with one another. So until there's a real valid test I for one will opt to work on the safe side of things as it's not much of a bother.


Rev.
__________________
Rev2010 is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
adding water. jonbomb Extract Brewing 5 05-26-2010 07:33 PM
adding water to fermentor? steakinabottle Extract Brewing 4 09-06-2009 04:35 PM
Wort is too cold, Now what? Shoopdog Extract Brewing 6 09-19-2006 01:22 PM
DME - Adding to boiling water sirsloop Extract Brewing 7 08-25-2006 01:54 AM
Adding hot wort to cold water Atticmonkey Extract Brewing 5 01-01-2006 06:48 PM