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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Extract Brewing > "Boil The Hops, Not The Malt Extract" By: Steve Bader

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Old 02-08-2011, 12:23 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
There are two main benefits to adding the bulk of the DME/LME late in a partial boil. (I can't think of any benefit in a full boil).
This is from the hip thought, but I would assume a full boil in extract brew would help with hop utilization and with your steeping it would help to extract more color, flavor and sugar (based on simple diffusion principle). Though I have been doing a ghetto collander sparge at 170F to rinse off grains with a gallon and a half of water too. Some say your tannins will increase from steeping in more water (has anyone actually experienced this?) and it will make the beer bitter (I do 5 gallon steeping and have never experienced this).

It only stands to reason that a full boil would increase your hops utilization. I do feel like the extract beers I have made twice in full boils seem to have more body. But that could also be that I have gotten better at doing certain things more consistentlty.

I do always do a 50/50 late addition, usually at the 15-20 minute mark.

I get the saving money on the hops bit, but unless it is an IPA, I probably wouldn't want to mess with the batch to save a few bucks on hops. In many cases you would be using a fraction of an ounce. This means that you would have a bunch of old hops lying around.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:09 PM   #22
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Lots of new things going on for my next three brews...it's my first jump to partial mash and with that, I'm going to try late extract addition so this thread was a good find (although, I know there are tons on here regarding the same topic!)

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Old 02-11-2011, 03:16 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by CidahMastah View Post
This is from the hip thought, but I would assume a full boil in extract brew would help with hop utilization and with your steeping it would help to extract more color, flavor and sugar (based on simple diffusion principle). Though I have been doing a ghetto collander sparge at 170F to rinse off grains with a gallon and a half of water too. Some say your tannins will increase from steeping in more water (has anyone actually experienced this?) and it will make the beer bitter (I do 5 gallon steeping and have never experienced this).
I don't think Yooper meant that she doesn't see the benefit of doing a full boil. I believe she meant that she doesn't see a benefit to doing a late extra addition if you're doing a full boil.
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:36 PM   #24
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So let me get this straight:

1) There is no reason to boil your extract. It's already been boiled in order to make it in the first place. The only thing boiling will do is darken the color and potentially carmelize the sugars and produce "extract twang."

2) Any worries about sanitization while doing late addition extract are moot, because the wort is still plenty hot at flameout to guard against infection when you introduce the extract.

3) Hop utilization does not depend on the gravity of your wort - tests have shown that boiling hops in high gravity wort and low gravity wort come out to the same IBUs. It's the time and volume of the boil that affects IBUs, not the gravity.

If those statements are true, why do people do 50/50 or, all at 15 mins. or any other kind of split or timing? Why wouldn't you just steep your specialty grains or, if you don't have any, boil your hops over plain old water? Why introduce any extract into the boil at all if hop utilization is not a factor and the only potential result of boiling your extract is discolorization and off-flavors? Am I missing something here? Is there any reason to boil any extract at any time other than personal preference?

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Old 02-11-2011, 03:54 PM   #25
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TTB-J: Your first two points are pretty widely accepted at this point.

Point 3 is much more contentious though; the topic of hops utilization, and even what an "IBU" really means when it comes to homebrewing is a recent and ongoing controversy.

Check out this thread:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/est...te-art-109681/

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Old 02-11-2011, 04:08 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTB-J View Post
1) There is no reason to boil your extract. It's already been boiled in order to make it in the first place. The only thing boiling will do is darken the color and potentially carmelize the sugars and produce "extract twang."
I completely agree with the carmelization bit, but at least in my experience the 'extract twang' is coming from old LME. I did a few batches of Brewers Best Kits that could have been quite old and they were twangy. After switching to DME, I haven't had the issue.
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:18 PM   #27
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TTB-J: Your first two points are pretty widely accepted at this point.

Point 3 is much more contentious though; the topic of hops utilization, and even what an "IBU" really means when it comes to homebrewing is a recent and ongoing controversy.

Check out this thread:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/est...te-art-109681/
I would contend that the first two points have a bit of a spin on them. (there are reasons and it doesn't give wort a twang - I have never experienced it...) It isn't that there isn't a reason to boil the DME LME, because there are stylistic reasons to do so. An IPA for example, could benefit from a lighter color and less carmalized taste with split late addition. A Brown ale would possibly benefit from all the DME up front, more carmelized flavor.

I think it comes back to the point that it is a tool, in your toolkit. Once you understand it, you decide how to use it.

Just as making a sanitizing choice on your extract. Yes, DME LME it was sanitized when it was made, then packed, then the package was touched, by people air things.... For me, that is enough reason to ensure my late addition gets 10 minutes of boil at a minimum.
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChshreCat View Post
I don't think Yooper meant that she doesn't see the benefit of doing a full boil. I believe she meant that she doesn't see a benefit to doing a late extra addition if you're doing a full boil.
Gotcha - I still believe there are benefits or "stylistic options" if you will. See my previous post.
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:23 AM   #29
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I think I might try this when I brew tomorrow. I'm brewing NB's cream ale. Why don't the instructions in the kits ever suggest this? If I buy a kit has the manufacturer taken this into consideration? I mean would this affect the recipe negatively in any way?

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Old 02-12-2011, 12:43 PM   #30
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I think I might try this when I brew tomorrow. I'm brewing NB's cream ale. Why don't the instructions in the kits ever suggest this? If I buy a kit has the manufacturer taken this into consideration? I mean would this affect the recipe negatively in any way?
I don';t think so. The kits always have the same recipe, but different ingredients, perhaps a different steep time. I go my own way with sparging and late additions with all my kits now, they turn out great. I think the way they are written up in kits is to keep it simple for a first time brewer, so they won't have to juggle as much. Both make good beer, but I feel like this way works better for my palate.

A cream ale is one style that I feel would benefit from the late addition (clearer lighter beer potentially)

Good luck!
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