"Boil The Hops, Not The Malt Extract" By: Steve Bader - Page 2

**Yooper** · 11-08-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidoduck

I've got a question for anyone willing to weigh in - If I follow the instructions in the Bader article, and assuming I drop my I.C. at about 10 minutes to flame-out to sterilize, if I dump 5 pounds of DME on top of that, will I be able to stir that well enough to keep the extract from sticking to my coils and making a big mess? It just seems like the coil is going to cause a problem.
If I drop the coil in after I stir in the DME, with the temperature around 170deg, will that be sufficient heat for sterilization?

In my experience, the extract clumps but breaks up really easily with some stirring. There are a couple of things you could do to avoid any possibility of a proble, though- one is to sanitize your chiller with a sanitizer and don't put it in the boil at all. Another is do take out about a quart of the wort with a saucepot, and add the DME to it. Stir well, to dissolve the DME thoroughly, and pour it back into the brew pot. I would probably be inclined to just stir the wort vigorously and "whirlpool" it a bit as I added the DME. I think that would be fine, and that no DME would stick to the chiller. (I haven't actually done it, though, of course!)

sub-zero · 11-08-2009, 09:22 PM

What is the benifit to a late dme/lme/ addition? Wow lots of post deleated on this one lol

**Yooper** · 11-08-2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sub-zero

What is the benifit to a late dme/lme/ addition? Wow lots of post deleated on this one lol

There are two main benefits to adding the bulk of the DME/LME late in a partial boil. (I can't think of any benefit in a full boil).

One is to keep the brew lighter colored. In my experience, an extract beer is almost always darker than the commercial version, or the AG version. The reason is that the extract can darken during the boil. Adding the extract late keeps that from happening. Another benefit is the increased hops utilization. Boiling the hops in a lower gravity wort gets the best bittering out of them. It simulates the hops utilization you'd get in a full boil.

I experienced that first hand a few years ago. I made my Dead Guy Clone as a regular partial boil (boiling 2.5 gallons of wort and topping up with water to 5 gallons). The next time, I added the bulk of the extract late in the boil. To my taste, it was almost twice as bitter! Later on, when I got Beersmith, I added the recipe to it. Sure enough, the IBUs in the partial boil were approximately 15- but jumped to 30 IBUs with a partial boil.

peripatetic · 11-08-2009, 09:45 PM

From the artice linked in the first post:

Quote:

7) Let the beer sit at this high temperature for 10 minutes to sanitize the malt sugars you just added to the beer.

In the previous step, it said the temp would get down to 170 -- that is the "high temperature" referred to in the quote.

1) Doesn't it have to boil to become sanitized?

2) what about all the advice about cooling the worst as fast as possible to avoid hazy beers?

Thanks!

**Yooper** · 11-08-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peripatetic

From the artice linked in the first post:

1) Doesn't it have to boil to become sanitized?

2) what about all the advice about cooling the worst as fast as possible to avoid hazy beers?

Thanks!

1. No. I mean, it's canned or bagged. It's already pretty darn clean. You could add it to boiling wort at the end of the boil and that is plenty hot to sanitize it. I think 30 seconds at 160 is fine for pasteurizing milk, so 10 minutes over 200 is probably overkill for the extract anyway.

2. Once it sits at that high temperature, then you can bring it down fast. You want to cool it fast, but usually it's at 80-140 degrees that is the danger zone for bacteria to grow. Also, the cold break happens as the wort cools rapidly from about 140 down to 70 or so.

When I've done this, I've added the extract with about 5 minutes left in the boil, so I just turned off the flame after the boil and considered it good. I never kept the temperature up after the boil, I started chilling right away.

**ChshreCat** · 11-08-2009, 10:17 PM

I usually throw my LME in late and have it in there just long enough to make sure it's completely mixed in and then go right to cooling. I design my recipes to go with that method. Works great with large partial mashes when you already have decent gravity wort boiling without the extract.

sub-zero · 11-08-2009, 11:00 PM

Thanks Yooper looks like you could save on the hop bill going this way.

I have been doing full boils but it looks like its time to play.

staggerlee · 11-13-2009, 12:26 AM

Are there any known issues with a late extract addition? Like for example, is there a problem with not achieving (and then removing the results of) a hot break?

**Shooter** · 11-13-2009, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staggerlee

Are there any known issues with a late extract addition? Like for example, is there a problem with not achieving (and then removing the results of) a hot break?

I don't remove any of my break material anyway, hot or cold. I probably would if I was making a lager, but I haven't tried one yet.

**Yuri_Rage** · 11-13-2009, 12:36 AM

Theoretically, malt extract has already experienced a break. I'm not saying you can't achieve a hot/cold break in extract brewing to some extent, but it's likely to a much lesser degree than one would get when brewing all grain. Also, all of the DMS and other nasties have long since departed malt extract, further lessening the requirement for a lengthy boil.