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-   -   Attention All Extract Brewers - Harsh Bitterness and Aftertaste (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/attention-all-extract-brewers-harsh-bitterness-aftertaste-128731/)

jescholler 07-20-2009 12:23 AM

Attention All Extract Brewers - Harsh Bitterness and Aftertaste
Sodium/Sulfate Harsh Bitterness Experiment
Today I started an experiment to try and determine the cause of a harsh bitterness in my extract beers. At the moment, the experiment is in progress, but I have some good data to present. I plan to update this post as I get information such as fermentation times and temperatures and bottling details. I will add future tasting results in a subsequent post. I hope you find value in this experiment.

Statement of Problem
It is a well known fact that the combination of high levels of sodium and sulfate in brewing water will result in a harsh bitterness in a beer. According to John Palmer, it is desirable to keep either one of these minerals as low as possible, preferably the sodium. The extract brewer is faced with a handicap unless they use water nearly void of all minerals in their beer (i.e. distilled, de-ionized, or put through reverse osmosis). If an extract brewer uses their tap or well water for beer, the total minerals in the final product come from both the water used to make the extract, and the water out of their tap or well. If this sum includes high levels of sodium in combination with sulfate, the beer will have a harsh bitterness.

This was observed in one of my extract brews where I used one gallon of distilled water and the remaining water was from my tap. The initial taste of the beer was great, but it had a harsh bitterness that lasted for many minutes. Upon investigation, I realized that my tap water is high in sodium and sulfate content, 200ppm and 160ppm respectively. Since I was using extract, the minerals in the water used to make the extract also ended up in the final beer. The sum of the sodium and sulfate in both the extract water and my tap water put the harsh bitterness over the top and made the beer unpleasant.

A simple solution to the problem is to use all distilled water when using extract. This will minimize the amount of both sodium and sulfate in the beer. An extract beer brewed with distilled water will be much less harsh than a beer brewed using my tap water.

This single recipe represents two different beers. Both beers are identical to each other except for the water used.

Sodium/Sulfate Experiment
Type: Extract
Size: ~.5 gallons
Color: 7 HCU (~6 SRM)
Bitterness: 33 IBU
OG: 1.045
FG: Not Measured (batch too small)
Alcohol: Not Measured (batch too small)

One beer was made with tap water and 1/8 tsp. gypsum creating the following concentration of minerals:

Calcium - 41ppm
Magnesium - 3ppm
Sodium - 199ppm
*Chloride - 6ppm
Sulfate - 236ppm
The final beer will include the minerals above plus the minerals used in the water to make the extract. It is expected that the combined sodium and sulfate concentrations are extremely high.
*Note the chloride/sulfate ratio of my tap water is extremely weighted to the sulfate side. I have no way of knowing what the mineral content is in the extract I used. I will be able to adjust for the low chloride level by adding calcium chloride to the beer during tasting. If the harsh bitterness is due to the combination of high levels of sodium and sulfate, then adding chloride will not get rid of the harsh bitterness.

The other beer was made with all distilled water, which theoretically has no mineral content. This allows the beer to be made with only the mineral content of the extract.

60 minutes
SG: 1.022
1 gallons
8 oz. Amber dry malt extract

5g Hallertauer (3.9% AA, 60 min.)

Safale US-05 was used. It was re-hydrated in 1/2 cup distilled water at 80F. The yeast was allowed to hydrate for 20 minutes and then aerated for the following 30 minutes by swirling occasionally. Each beer received 1 tbsp. of the yeast slurry, equaling approximately 28 billion cells. The yeast was pitched with the worts at ~70F.

Brew Date: 7/19/2009
Fermented in 64 oz. growlers at 64F for 1 month.

The two worts were sampled prior to pitching the yeast. A comparison is shown below.

Suthrncomfrt1884 07-20-2009 02:22 AM

Just a thought... you should probably look into doing blind taste testing.

The fact that you know which is which ruins your view on it before you try it. Because you've had so many bitter tap water beers, you already have it in your mind that this is the cause.

You could be right.... but it would be smart to have someone with no opinions do the testing. I'm available by the way.

foxual 07-20-2009 02:33 AM

Interesting. I'd also be interested in seeing the results of some blind taste testing in multiple styles.

jescholler 07-20-2009 03:37 AM

I do agree that some blind tasting is in order. I have some brewing buddies that don't know about the experiment. I think I will recruit them for the final tasting. Before that (i.e. bottling), I don't see it as too big of a deal for me to do the tasting. Just to see how things evolve.

Thanks for the input. I was considering blind tasting, but now I have to do it for sure.

sharpstick 07-20-2009 12:14 PM

why do you specifically mention extracts? is this specific to extract brewing, or is that all you have tested?
it has been my experience that distilled or RO water is TOO pure for brewing unless you add minerals or yeast nutrient back to it.
i used RO for making wine kits, mead and extract beer kits for several years. i had noticed occasionally that attenuation was not as high as it should be. at a group brewing event, they had an inline charcoal filter hooked up to a hose. someone mentioned that RO is too purified and is lacking the trace minerals that yeast needs so i got a charcoal filter and have been using it. i haven't used it long enough to notice any results yet.

jescholler 07-20-2009 12:37 PM

I mention extract brewing because you get a double water profile (that of your tap water and that of the water used to make the extract). The double water profile increases your chances of having some minerals be too high.

The water used to make the extract should have the proper mineral content, although it may not be tailored to your particular style (chloride to sulfate ratio etc.). Using distilled water with extract is essentially recreating the condition after the mash and sparge at the extractor.

This could definitely be a problem for all grain brewing as well, but all other things being equal it would be less severe since you only have one water profile. In my case with 200ppm sodium and 160ppm sulfate, it would likely be a problem, but I haven't tried that. It is true that for mashing if you use distilled water, your water would lack the minerals required to perform a good mash. Therefore you would need to add salts to get the required profile.

Marko73 07-20-2009 12:50 PM

This is an excellent thread jescholler and I look forward to reading more. Thanks!

Marko73 07-20-2009 12:52 PM

One quick question, what type of extract are you using? The reason I ask is that I recently switched to a more 'fresh' extract (or so advertised) and my beer has improved greatly. I have been using spring water, but wondering if this shift to distilled water would even yield a greater improvement.

jescholler 07-20-2009 10:53 PM

I used Muntons Amber DME, packaged by Crosby and Baker. I don't know about the freshness, but I don't think this is too much of a concern with DME. It was packaged in heat sealed plastic.

You might be able to improve your beers by using distilled water. Do you know what brand of spring water you use? Some of the brands publish their information:
- Water from all over the World

The big unknown here is the mineral content of the extract. It's hard to tell if the water that we're using has too much of something if we don't know the mineral content of the extract.

theguy 08-05-2009 02:29 PM

Nice thread! I have long wondered why I have a twanginess aftertaste in my extract brews. Will be curious to see what the outcome of this experiment is. Prosting this thread

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