Aging and Bitter Aftertaste

Georgian Novice2 · 11-07-2008, 11:55 AM

Thought I would throw this out there. I have done a lot of searching for this particular question that I have and although I have found threads and phrases that answered part of my question they didn't answer all of it. I was most likely using the wrong search parameters, so forgive me if this have been talked to death.

I am an extract brewer. I am moving slowly to AG (course I have been saying that for years now) but I have been satisfied with my hobby and my results and haven't had to the time to invest in the AG process. I have just started brewing/boiling outside and have been able to boil more water at a time, control my boils better than being on an electric stove in the house, etc.

In all of my beers (it seems) there is a slight bitter or hoppy aftertaste. I believe this is what you all might be meaning when you say "green" beer, etc. Although even with beers that I have left alone for several months in the keg I still taste some of it. I generally leave my beers 2 weeks in the primary and then keg, or 1 week in primary, 2 in secondary, and then keg them and immediately put them in my cooler at 40 degrees F and force carb either at the "set and leave" method or the high PSI for 2 days method, etc.

So I am not leaving my beers to age for a few months at room temp. If they age at all it is in the cooler.

Do you all know that slightly bitter aftertaste that I am speaking of? It is not "astringent" or anything, just that bit of a kick that you get from a nice IPA but it is present in all others to some degree and when I am making some English Ales, Newcastle or Bass Ale clones, etc, I would like for the beer to be much more mellow than that.

I follow recipes, don't add any more hops, boil anywhere from 30-60 minutes depending on the recipe, etc. Should I be allowing the beer to age a few months at room temp before carbing and drinking?

Thank you much.

mklawz · 11-07-2008, 12:05 PM

I can't wait for others to chime in because I feel the same way about most of my beers too. I think it might be water-related, but I think I get the same results using bottled spring water from the stores.

I'll be staying tuned.

DD2000GT · 11-07-2008, 12:14 PM

I am FAR from an experienced brewer - but I love strong IPAs. I have found that the bittering hops (the ones that go in at the beginning of a 60 minute boil) take about a month in the bottle/keg at room temps before they start to subside. I describe these as the bitter aftertaste you get on the sides of the tongue towards the back after you swallow. If your bitter taste is from the bittering hops - then aging at room temps will decrease this.

I usually let my IPAs sit in the keg for about a month, but have FORCED myself to bottle six and leave them longer so I can taste at different time intervals. I have found that bittering continues to decrease up yo 3 months (the longest I have gone to) but unfortunately so does the hop flavor/aroma. You can always modify the recipe to decrease the amount or alpha acids of the bittering hops when you brew to reduce the total IBUs of the beer.

Other things such as water also can cause this taste. What water do you use - tap?

**Laughing_Gnome_Invisible** · 11-07-2008, 12:37 PM

Could it be "extract twang?" Try searching that here and see if the descriptions fit what you are getting.

Here is a starting point

Georgian Novice2 · 11-07-2008, 12:52 PM

It might be related in some way to that extract twang, but it was so scientific in nature I am not sure.

Me is not bright.

Water I use has been tap and spring. My water here is good, not overchlorinated, hard, soft, etc. without any type of residual water taste that you get in some areas of the country, so pretty sure that is fine.

And to respond to the previous poster who was talking about the IPA, I completely understand your post. However I am talking about all of my brew styles. Just that slight bitter taste you get at the back of your tounge that reminds one of "bittering hops". Sorry can't explain it much more than that. It just seems that when I brew some styles and you want that slight bitter taste, there it is and you are fine with it. But if you like that slightly malty taste that you get in Newcastles or the like, you don't want that aftertaste. I could back off the hops that come with the recipe, but that seems dumb.

Anyway, it seems that aging might help all of this, allow the protein strings to form and the brew to mellow out. I was just curious if someone was an extract brewer that also brewed a lot of English style of beers or beers that had a more malty taste (or whatever you might call it) and what they have done about that slightly bitter aftertaste.

What would be funny is if the answer was "yep, that is the taste that you want, it's called beer". But if that is the case. . .why does it not show up in the commercial brews and are we able as homebrewers to replicate the final taste, etc.

Anyway, just kicking it around.

hcarter · 11-07-2008, 01:58 PM

With all that you have been typing trying to get a hand on this, this answer is going to seem woefully inadequate. That said, if you use LME, you might want to research late extract additions. Essentially, add about 1/3 of your LME at the start and the last 2/3 with, say 10 min to go in the boil. Can't hurt, and it might help. Hopefully, someone with more experience than me will come along and help out.

**Yooper** · 11-07-2008, 02:01 PM

could you post a typical "too bitter" English recipe you've done, along with the amount of wort you've boiled, etc, so maybe we can see what stands out to us? That would help the most.

Georgian Novice2 · 11-08-2008, 12:33 PM

hcarter - I have done the late extract additions in the boil before, but a good suggestion none the less.

Yooper - they vary from a recipe you find or just brewing a straight kit. A typical one for me is:
Pale Ale
6lbs Gold LME
8 oz Caramel 10L, 8oz Carapils mixed
Hops 2oz Perle - Bittering, 2oz Cascade - Aroma
White Labs California Ale #WL001 vial

I put about 3 gallons of water on the burner.
Bring up to 155F and steep grains for around 20 mins or so. Remove bag without squeezing, just letting it natural empty residual water.
Add LME (or DME if the recipe has it) and dissolve.
Bring to boil
Add bittering hops
Boil 60 mins (sometimes less since it is extract, etc)
Add Irish Moss last 15 mins
Add aroma hops last 10 mins
Cool with wort chiller
Put in fermenting bucket with yeast, add more water, etc.
Ferment for 2 weeks in primary
Keg and start to carbonate with CO2 in cooler

Sometimes I secondary if I need to free up some primaries, but most of the time not.

Your typical, boring extract brewer. And let me restate that I am not creating "bitter beer". It is just when I taste all of my beers there is a slight lingering bitter taste in the back of the tongue that makes me think, "huh, I wonder why all my beers have that slight aftertaste."

I think "off-tastes" are the hardest to describe on boards, but I thought I would explore this with those who brew more than I.

Thank you for your time, YooperBrew.

jklotz · 11-08-2008, 12:45 PM

I did an IPA kit that is too bitter. Took it to my friend who is a competition judge and had him do a score sheet for me. His comments echo some of what you mention. His thoughts were twofold; 1, try seeping the speciality grains at a slightly higher temp to get more unfermentable sugars to help balance it out, and 2, he told me the california yeast finishes very dry. He recommended trying another yeast, like east coast yeast, for a more malty balance. I just kegged an english nut brown ale and it is great. I used his suggestion and used english ale yeast, which has a much lower attenuation rate than some others.

So far, his advice has been spot on, so maybe it's worth a try?

**Yooper** · 11-08-2008, 01:37 PM

Ok, I have no answers yet, but more questions!

This aftertaste you describe as "bitter"- is it bitter like the white of an orange peel, harsh and truly bitter on your tongue, or is it bitter like astringent? Think of sucking on a tea bag type of bitter. Is it either one of those? Is there a medicinal or "band-aid" type of taste to this bitterness?

What about the water you're using? You said it's neutral, with no hard/soft/chlorine in it and it's the same whether you use bottled water and tap water, right?

Have you ever done any DME only recipes (no LME)? Are steeping grains you're using crushed and removed from the pot by 160 degrees?