The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Extract Brewing > 60 min. full boil Malt Extract vs. late addition Malt Extract - What Say You?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-19-2012, 11:50 AM   #11
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,044
Liked 4202 Times on 3059 Posts
Likes Given: 779

Default

Adding the extract at the end of the boil is pretty new practice, but it's been embraced by most now. I was reading a Zymurgy article about a year ago with Charlie Papazian where Charlie said he had never heard of this, though, so maybe it's not quite as common as I thought!

It makes sense if you think about it. Not that the extract has already been boiled (it has) but when you do a partial boil of wort, you get a superthick wort that actually darkens and exhibits maillard reactions. You don't get that in a full boil or in the all-grain version. So holding back some of the extract until the end actually more closely simulates the consistency, gravity, and color of the all-grain or full boil wort. That thinking is what me start doing this about 5-6 years ago.

After I tried it by adding some of the extract at 15 minutes left in the boil, the wort was lighter in color, with a less "cooked extract" taste to it. I thought that was encouraging, so I ended up using more extract at the very end of the boil (at flame out) and less in the beginning. I never tried not using any extract in the beginning, but I often used DME at the beginning and LME at the end if the recipe used both. My extract beers turned out really good that way.

I haven't made an extract beer since late 2006 or so, but I took careful notes of the results and do remember the difference in the quality. My late extract addition beers were more like a typical commercial beer without as much darkening and with a better less extract-y flavor.

I think some homebrew stores may not be as open to change as some others. I believe it's Northern Brewer who has their instructions in some of the kits for adding about 1/2 of the extract near the end of the boil.

It's worth a try, just to see if someone likes the results better or not. There is no downside at all, except that getting DME to dissolve in hot wort at the end can be a PITA.

Keep in mind that there is really one reason to boil an extract beer for an hour- to maximize hops utilization. Since the extract has been processed already, there would be nothing "magical" that would happen to the extract in boiling it. In AG brewing, the boil is necessary to kill bacteria, reduce volume, get a hot break, evaporate SMM (DMS precursors), and so on. None of that is necessary with extract.

__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2012, 12:27 PM   #12
Sluggoid
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3
Default

I agree with what yooper said. If I'm brewing an extract brew that is on the lighter side (pilsner, kolsch for example), I find that adding the bulk of the extract at the end of boil (about 10 minutes) creates a lighter colored wort compared to adding all the extract in the beginning. Also, adding the extract later allows you to use less hops to get the same IBU's. I also find that adding a lot of hops also throws off the color a bit.

__________________
Sluggoid is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2012, 02:35 PM   #13
MikeWI
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 74
Default

So when are they going to update my Beersmith software to reflect this? It currently shows that I can get ALOT more IBUs by holding back some of my extract until 15 or 10 minutes before flame-out. Should I be ignoring that and just looking at the IBU rating it shows for adding all my extract at the beginning of the boil?

Mike

__________________
MikeWI is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2012, 03:56 PM   #14
dietz
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 16
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

I have done 4 batches doing late addition, I tried "early addition" yesterday and I don't think I'll do it again. My biggest problem is that I have a 7 gallon kettle. 6 gallons of water and 8# of LME brings things VERY close to the top of pot, got my first boilover. The wort is also noticibly darker, I hope the flavor isn't affected too much.

__________________
dietz is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2012, 04:22 PM   #15
StusBrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Willard, WA
Posts: 129
Likes Given: 2

Default

I made an American Stout from recipe I got from BYO. Went to Bader's brewing to get ingredients. Told them what I wanted to do. Modified some things for me. Tasted fine. But used a little DME (1 lb.), 2 cans of LME, and some steeped grains. They suggested tossing in half the DME at first (partially to help break up clumps of DME I think) along with first additions of hops. Last 10 -15 minutes add rest of DME. Turn off heat, stir in the LME for 10 minutes after flameout. Coudn't hurt to try. I had asked all kinds of questions in relation to what I also heard about not adding LME until later in boil or even no-boil addition of LME

__________________
StusBrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2012, 06:15 PM   #16
ryno84
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ryno84's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 113
Liked 16 Times on 14 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonK331 View Post
I hate to say it but the guy at MB was totally wrong. Check out this article which supports Jamil/Palmer: http://baderbrewing.com/store/produc...cat=396&page=1
Ironically, Bader is where I got my kit and learned to homebrew before i moved back to California. They taught me to add LME at flameout and let it sit for 10-15 minutes.

But when I recently got back into brewing, being that Morebeer is so close, i figured I would listen to them. I think i may go back to late addition like i originally was doing when I first started. I guess the old trial and error is my best bet at this point.

The logic of late addition makes sense to me, but I admit I am new at this and am learning a great deal.
__________________

Last edited by ryno84; 04-19-2012 at 08:02 PM.
ryno84 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2012, 06:20 PM   #17
Turlian
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 114
Default

I'm just about to keg a California Common, and I did a 100% late addition. Only hops (well, plus the liquid from the steeping grains) during most of the boil. I think I added all of my LME at about 10min before flameout.

__________________
Turlian is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2012, 06:51 PM   #18
JonK331
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonK331's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 2,100
Liked 28 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryno84 View Post
Ironically, BaderBeer is where I got my kit and learned to homebrew before i moved back to California. They taught me to add LME at flameout and let it sit for 10-15 minutes.

But when I recently got back into brewing, being that Morebeer is so close, i figured I would listen to them. I think i may go back to late addition like i originally was doing when I first started. I guess the old trial and error is my best bet at this point.

The logic of late addition makes sense to me, but I admit I am new at this and am learning a great deal.
MB has been my shop for years. It totally depends on who you talk to. What's also ironic is how connected MB is to the Brew Network and some of them are still teaching old methods.
__________________
JonK331 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2012, 07:13 PM   #19
Indianhead_Brewer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northwoods, WI
Posts: 175
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turlian View Post
I'm just about to keg a California Common, and I did a 100% late addition. Only hops (well, plus the liquid from the steeping grains) during most of the boil. I think I added all of my LME at about 10min before flameout.
Did you end up adjusting your hopping rate/schedule at all for your Common? The only reason I ask is that I was just entering my recipe into Brewtarget and it has an option for "normal" vs. "late addition" of fermentables to the wort and all I can say is wow! By just changing my extract additions around it made a huge difference in calculated IBUs of my boil. By just changing my Gold Malt Syrup addition around (from 60 min full boil to adding at flameout) it more than doubled my calculated IBUs (from 30.7 to 63.5).
__________________
Indianhead_Brewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2012, 08:50 PM   #20
HopHead73
Brewmaster at Jbyrd Brewsing, Hop Lover
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
HopHead73's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Norwalk, CT
Posts: 128
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianhead_Brewer View Post
Did you end up adjusting your hopping rate/schedule at all for your Common? The only reason I ask is that I was just entering my recipe into Brewtarget and it has an option for "normal" vs. "late addition" of fermentables to the wort and all I can say is wow! By just changing my extract additions around it made a huge difference in calculated IBUs of my boil. By just changing my Gold Malt Syrup addition around (from 60 min full boil to adding at flameout) it more than doubled my calculated IBUs (from 30.7 to 63.5).
that is correct. As Yooper stated before, you get greater hop utilization with a lower gravity wort during the boil.
So if you are adding the majority of your extract as a late addition then you would have a lower gravity during the boil, meaning you will need less hops to reach your desired IBU.

If you are using Beersmith, there is a box under the Malt Extract for late addition. I contacted Beersmith and they assured me that have modified their software to account for the lower gravity with a late addition to account for hop utilization. Their "bitterness adjustment" tool will help even more in reaching your desired IBU as you just enter the number you want and it will adjust all of your hops for you.
__________________
HopHead73 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Full Boil AND Late Extract Addition? jskinner10 Extract Brewing 16 02-16-2012 08:10 PM
Late addition malt extract question RRR_BrewCo Extract Brewing 10 01-08-2012 09:18 PM
Late extract addition with full boil? philjohnwilliams Extract Brewing 7 08-03-2011 01:29 AM
late extract addition and full boils? cpz28 Extract Brewing 18 11-16-2009 06:38 PM
Coopers Kit with DME-Full Boil late addition extract? KerryD Extract Brewing 17 01-26-2009 01:59 PM