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Old 05-09-2012, 02:20 AM   #1
scott1147
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Default Why two "different" beers?

Hey all - brewed up a Left Hand Warrior clone 10 gallon all grain batch about five weeks ago and did a bit of an experiment when we pitched the yeast. Separated the batch into two 6.5 gallon carboys (5 gallons in each from the same batch) for primary. Long story short we ended up with two different color beers (maybe related to having things in suspension?) When they came out of the secondary, one was whiskey clear and one was cloudy. Both taste very close to the same, but the cloudy one has a bit more of a stout mouth feel whereas the clear one has a much less pronounced mouth feel. Here are the specifics:

Sinistral Warrior IPA 10 gallons
Grains:
24.00 lbs Rahr pale ale - 60min
2.00 lbs Briess Caramel 40L - 60min
8 oz. Briess Caramel 80L - 60 min
Hops:
2 oz. Magnum - 60 min
2 oz. Centennial - 15min
2 oz. Cascade - 15min
4 oz. Warrior - 0min

OG was 1.065. When racking to secondary, gravity of cloudy beer was 1.020; clear beer was 1.022. FG was 1.018 for the cloudy beer and 1.020 for the clear beer. (missed our target FG by .002 and .004 respectively.)

Yeast: Used 1056 for both. For the clear beer we just pitched from the Wyeast smack pack. For the cloudy beer we reused the 1056 (unwashed) from an earlier batch of spotted cow (yeast was taken off the primary that morning) and dumped it in from a mason jar.

I've attached a pic of the respective beers as well. Left is the unwashed yeast beer that fermented further, right is the clear less fermented beer.

So here we stand wondering why in the world this happened. Is it due to more yeast in the cloudy beer upon bottling? We are totally perplexed. Not to worry though. Both beers taste great so we'll drink them Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers!
scott1147

sinistral-warrior.jpg  
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:30 AM   #2
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How do you chill? It almost sounds like you didn't fully mix the wort before splitting it into the two fermenters. IF you did, then it's probably the unwashed yeast. That could have more than a little to do with why the cloudy one is cloudy. You carried over a good amount from the batch it came off of. This (among other reasons) is why you want to wash/rinse the yeast when you save it. Or you go to a darker brew, not a light one.

I did my first 10 gallon batch not that long ago. I didn't split it into two fermenters though. I used one 50L sanke keg converted into a fermenter for the batch. Came out super clear. I even forgot the Irish moss in that batch. I have 1/3 of it (I use 3 gallon kegs) in my brew fridge now carbonating and with 1oz of EKG in it (it's my MO SMaSH recipe).

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Old 05-09-2012, 02:38 AM   #3
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Hey Golddiggie - Thanks for the quick response!

Chilled using an immersion wort chiller. Went from 212 to 75 in 10 minutes.
We then did a cold break for 20 minutes to let the sediment fell below the dip tube so we did not mix up the wort after chilling. Could this have made that much of a difference?

Cheers!

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Old 05-09-2012, 02:45 AM   #4
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In all likelihood, yes, that's what caused the issue. You probably would have been far better off to drain into fermenter right after you finished chilling. BTW, I always target below the yeast's temperature range, getting great results that way.

I can chill 11 gallons from boil to ~60F in about 10-12 minutes with my plate current chiller (40 plate ChillHog 4000 from Rebel). I plan on getting one from Duda Diesel that's larger (larger plate dimensions) once I start making 10-11 gallon batches more often. I easily chill my normal 6.5-7 gallons in 10 minutes or less (I usually leave the pump off when draining the fermenter, after the ~5 minute pre-chill to reach <80F).

I would plan the next 10 gallon batch to either go into a single fermenter, or drain the kettle as soon as it's to the target temp. There's been enough testing to show that getting everything from the kettle into the fermenter actually benefits the brew. There was a test done that the batch with less sediment from the kettle ended up more cloudy (in glass) than the part with sediment in it.

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On Tap: Caramel Ale, Mocha Porter II, MO SMaSH IPA
Waiting/Carbonating: 12.5% Wee Honey II, 8.9% Old Ale, English Brown Ale, Lickah ESB, Mocha Porter II
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:47 AM   #5
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I wouldn't be surprised if they are more similar once the one on the left has some time to cold crash and clear up. The repitched yeast fermented further because you basically pitched a big starter -- more cells, second generation, happy yeast. I'd be curious how they are after the one on the left has some to settle.

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Old 05-09-2012, 02:55 AM   #6
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BTW, I wouldn't have racked it to 'secondary' at all. IME, unless you're doing it to age on top of something that has a very real benefit form being off the yeast, adding fruit, or something else that pretty much requires it, you're better off leaving the brew alone/in primary. I get super clear brews by simply leaving them alone/in primary. I do rack when I go to age on things like toasted wood (I use more than oak now). I don't dry hop in primary (never did it in 'secondary') since I just add them (whole hops in a nylon bag) to the keg just before it goes into the brew fridge to chill/carbonate. I get far better results that way (1oz per 3 gallon keg is great).

Also, I've not cold crashed any of my beers in fermenters. The closest I get is when a keg goes into the brew fridge. I do push the brew into serving keg via CO2, so I don't need to move it one inch in order to transfer. So virtually nothing gets picked up from the bottom (I have dip tubes cut to the length to leave a designated amount behind in my fermenters).

I'm a firm believer in not doing steps that are being done just because a 12+ year old book says to. I racked my first two batches simply because I didn't know any better. Since learning that you DON'T need to do it, I'm much happier and sstill getting excellent beer to my glass. The fact that it's even less work/risk makes it a solid win in my book. I'm not alone either...

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On Tap: Caramel Ale, Mocha Porter II, MO SMaSH IPA
Waiting/Carbonating: 12.5% Wee Honey II, 8.9% Old Ale, English Brown Ale, Lickah ESB, Mocha Porter II
Fermenting
K1:
K2: Epic mead
K3: TripSix
On Deck: Caramel Ale
Aging:mead
Mead [bottled]:Oaked Wildflower Traditional, Mocha Madness, Blackberry Melomel, maple wine
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:13 AM   #7
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We're racking the beers over to secondaries (5 gallons) so that we can then immediately devote our primaries (6.5 gallons) to what we just brewed. Makes it easier to prevent any crazy blowover scenarios. Also, it saves us money by not having to buy a whole bunch of 6.5's when we already have 2 5's on hand. It is a room issue, not a clarity issue.

As for cold crashing I'm assuming bolts is talking about conditioning then refrigerating. I don't keg and I'm not real worried about the look of the beer so no cold crashing needed. I was just curious about the root problem of the difference in clarity.

I'm interested in the 12+ year old book. Probably haven't read it and don't know which one you're talking about. Rest assured that I'm not making decisions on an outdated book. Again simply a space issue.

Thanks for the input! Will repost after the beer ages.
Cheers!

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Up Next - Imperial Stout, Parti-gyle from stout
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:33 PM   #8
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I agree with Golddiggie that not mixing the wort would have resulted in different sugars/break material in each batch. Your differences in yeast could be important as well.

Re-used yeast is generally more attenuative than the stuff right out of Wyeast; that would explain your lower gravity on the re-pitched batch.

How did you harvest the yeast from primary? Could you have have ended up with mostly yeast from the 'top' of the yeast cake? If that's the case you've selected for yeast that are less flocculant than the original strain, and the cloudiness could be due to more yeast in suspension.

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Old 05-09-2012, 02:51 PM   #9
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I find that using tall 1/4 bbl kegs to ferment in uses less floor space than buckets/carboys. I like aging in my 25L kegs since they stack (made to interconnect) really well. My experience using the 50L keg to ferment 10-11 gallons went really well. With the 4" TC ferrule welded in the top and the cap setup with a thermowell plus gas and liquid ball lock posts it was a snap to transfer to serving kegs.

In the future, if you're going to split a batch to ferment make sure its well mixed before moving the wort to where it will ferment. IMO letting it settle was a bad move.

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On Tap: Caramel Ale, Mocha Porter II, MO SMaSH IPA
Waiting/Carbonating: 12.5% Wee Honey II, 8.9% Old Ale, English Brown Ale, Lickah ESB, Mocha Porter II
Fermenting
K1:
K2: Epic mead
K3: TripSix
On Deck: Caramel Ale
Aging:mead
Mead [bottled]:Oaked Wildflower Traditional, Mocha Madness, Blackberry Melomel, maple wine
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