Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Winners Re-Re-Re-Drawn - 24 hours to Claim!

Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Water TOO pure?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-14-2012, 10:46 PM   #11
ajf
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ajf's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 4,643
Liked 99 Times on 93 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NVBrewer88 View Post
Hey all, I am hoping someone can clear my dilemma up for me. I am preparing to do my first all grain batch, I started studying and realized the importance of water chemistry. Using John Palmer's Excel sheet and information I determined that my water sucks for making anything but Pilsners. Currently, I am trying to make a fairly dark Dunkelweizen. My water profile is:

Ca - 9.6
Mg - 2.2
Na - 7.5
SO4 - 2.6
Cl - 3.5
CaCO3 - 33
pH - 7.3

The excel sheet tells me that while aiming for a 22 SRM beer, my water will only yield a 7-12 SRM beer. My target residual alkalinity is 175-200 or so and i need 150 additional alkalinity to achieve the color alone. Baking Soda will help this, correct? I am hoping someone can suggest any advice on how to proceed. Either what salts to add ( i hope it doesn't require adding to much that it will ruin the beer), or perhaps just going to buy bottled water. Thanks for the help guys!
How sure are you about that water profile?
If that is your tap water, then I have a lot of difficulty believing it. If it's bottled water, then OK.

Sorry, I cannot help with the required water profile for a Dunkelweizen because I never brew them.

-a.
__________________

There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

ajf is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-15-2012, 08:29 AM   #12
NVBrewer88
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Incline Village, Nevada
Posts: 7
Default Its true

I live next to a crystalline lake, so I get super pure stuff here.
http://www.ivgid.org/client_uploads/ccr_2012.pdf. proof of water report. So from what I can tell, I am lucky to have this stuff. Good to know, I already have all my grain mixed so the different batch boiling for the grain sounds appealing but I might have to try that next time. I think i might just try the Sodium Chloride and Sodium Bicarbonate the initial repliers mentioned and see how it turns out! Thanks all!

__________________
NVBrewer88 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-15-2012, 08:31 AM   #13
NVBrewer88
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Incline Village, Nevada
Posts: 7
Default Oops

Scratch that. CALCIUM Chloride and Calcium Bicarbonate

__________________
NVBrewer88 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-15-2012, 09:49 PM   #14
emetcalf
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 177
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Since you already got some decent answers, I'm just going to brag about how amazing my water is. All of these numbers were measured from the output of the water treatment plant in December 2011. I <3 Portland, OR water.

Ca - 2.2
Mg - .94
Na - 3.4
SO4 - <.25 (apparently their testing method didn't even detect it)
Cl - 2.7
CaCO3 - 13
Total dissolved solids - 38
pH - 8.0

__________________
emetcalf is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-15-2012, 10:41 PM   #15
chinaski1217
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Erlanger, KY
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikpete18 View Post
Also, one last thing, in case you want to skip the salt additions all together. Depending on what dark malts you're using, you don't necessarily need to mash them the whole time. Some people will mash in all the wheat/base malts without the dark malts for 45-60 min, allowing most, if not all, of the conversion to take place. Then you could stir in the darker malts. Most of the heavily roasted malts don't have much left in the way of starches to convert, so 15min. or so is plenty to dissolve all the compounds within them. This way you get to use your nice, clean water to mash the bulk of your grains, and still get the dark color and flavors from the dark malts. If you did it this way, I'd still probably add a little calcium chloride to up the calcium content a little, but wouldn't worry about pH as much.
This is what I've done with success for darker beers.

Also, try the bru'n water spreadsheets to figure out salt additions. Takes a minute to figure it out, but it's very accurate in my opinion: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/.

Martin Brungard, the guy who wrote the spreadsheet, recommends adding pickling lime to help balance the mash pH for darker beers instead of chalk or baking soda. I got a bag of it at Walmart for a few bucks and it's gonna last me 10 years. Just be careful because a little goes a long way.

I've also contacted him directly via email with specific water questions. He was very helpful and got back to me right away.
__________________
chinaski1217 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-16-2012, 02:41 AM   #16
ajf
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ajf's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 4,643
Liked 99 Times on 93 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

Please ignore my previous post.
According to my prejudices, and the map in New Brewing Lager Beer (Greg Noonan), you should have pretty hard water.
I looked up the water report for Incline Village, and it appears that we are both wrong.

Sorry,

-a.

__________________

There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

ajf is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-16-2012, 02:51 AM   #17
Stauffbier
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Stauffbier's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 5,116
Liked 1020 Times on 625 Posts
Likes Given: 2711

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braufessor View Post
This is a good way to address your "problem." The dark grains do not need to "mash" - some people even just steep them. I would conduct a mash with all of the base grain and add the dark grains when it is almost time to sparge..
+1 to this. I've added dark grains in the last 5 minutes of the mash, and I've also cold steeped the dark grain for 24 hours and added the liquor to the boil. Both methods work great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvtschultz View Post
I've found the EZ Water Spreadsheet to be an excellent tool for calculating brewing salt additions.

http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/
+1 to this, too! EZ Water is what I use on every batch. Bru'n Water won't download on my computer for some reason...
__________________
Bier war sein letztes wort dann trugen ihn die Englein fort...

Stauffbier is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-16-2012, 03:12 AM   #18
Braufessor
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
 
Braufessor's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NE Iowa, Iowa
Posts: 1,903
Liked 440 Times on 312 Posts
Likes Given: 364

Default

If you are interested in some water strategies and the concept of adding dark grains at the end of your mash, check out podcast #39 - just listened to it today while brewing and it hits this topic very well. http://beersmith.com/blog/

__________________
Braufessor is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-16-2012, 02:00 PM   #19
fxdrider
Slightly Better than Mediocre Brewer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
fxdrider's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Stafford, VA
Posts: 99
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NVBrewer88 View Post
Hey all, I am hoping someone can clear my dilemma up for me. I am preparing to do my first all grain batch, I started studying and realized the importance of water chemistry. Using John Palmer's Excel sheet and information I determined that my water sucks for making anything but Pilsners. Currently, I am trying to make a fairly dark Dunkelweizen. My water profile is:

Ca - 9.6
Mg - 2.2
Na - 7.5
SO4 - 2.6
Cl - 3.5
CaCO3 - 33
pH - 7.3

The excel sheet tells me that while aiming for a 22 SRM beer, my water will only yield a 7-12 SRM beer. My target residual alkalinity is 175-200 or so and i need 150 additional alkalinity to achieve the color alone. Baking Soda will help this, correct? I am hoping someone can suggest any advice on how to proceed. Either what salts to add ( i hope it doesn't require adding to much that it will ruin the beer), or perhaps just going to buy bottled water. Thanks for the help guys!
The well water at my home is even lower in minerals than yours, and I have brewed some kickass beers - several Altbiers, a Bourbon-barrel Porter, even a dark smoked lager that finished at 10.5% abv, as well as a light hefeweizen and a very nice light summery cream ale - ALL of them with no additives. I'm not saying they couldn't be improved by some additives, but the even without they came out fantastic! My guess is yours will too.
__________________
O'Zapft Ist!
Ein Prosit, ein Prosit
Der Gemütlichkeit!
Ein Prosit, ein Prosit
Der Gemütlichkeit!


Trinken Sie das Bier, das hat Sie gebraut!
fxdrider is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water quality vs. Walmart vended water OzarkPA All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 5 09-09-2011 02:03 AM
Mash water profile vs sparge water tandom590 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 08-04-2011 07:02 PM
2 Gallons of Water Below False Bottom - Opinion on Mash Water Amounts Jewrican All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 10 07-15-2011 04:55 AM
using RO water + all grain = some kind of water profile? dismal All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 22 03-01-2011 04:46 PM
mash water/sparge water ratios Budzu All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 7 07-20-2009 12:49 AM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS