Electric Brewing Supply 30A BCS Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Water for Imperial Stout
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-22-2012, 03:10 PM   #41
Johnnyboy1012
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hackensack, NJ
Posts: 161
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stauffbier View Post
The only problem with this is the fact my water is different than yours and so are my personal tastes. You might like the taste of minerals that I don't. Hence, the need for personal experimenting...
ahh I understand, but what I meant by that is I don't want my beer to turn out undrinkable.
__________________
Johnnyboy1012 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-22-2012, 04:48 PM   #42
Stauffbier
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Stauffbier's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 5,098
Liked 1015 Times on 623 Posts
Likes Given: 2695

Default

You can download Bru'n Water calculator or stick with EZ Water calculator and just try to keep you're minerals on the lower end of the spectrum for the style you're brewing. If you need to tweak it to keep your pH good, you can. If you have to approach the high end of the mineral spectrum just to get your pH correct then you need to consider acidifying instead of raising the mineral levels too high. This is just my opinion on the matter. There are people in this thread that are very experienced when it comes to water chemistry, so they might have better advice. If I was in your shoes (which I was when I first started messing with my water) I would start the way I described above. I don't want to discourage you, but you might not hit it perfectly your first time. All things get better with experience..

__________________
Bier war sein letztes wort dann trugen ihn die Englein fort...

Stauffbier is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-22-2012, 05:16 PM   #43
Johnnyboy1012
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hackensack, NJ
Posts: 161
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stauffbier View Post
You can download Bru'n Water calculator or stick with EZ Water calculator and just try to keep you're minerals on the lower end of the spectrum for the style you're brewing. If you need to tweak it to keep your pH good, you can. If you have to approach the high end of the mineral spectrum just to get your pH correct then you need to consider acidifying instead of raising the mineral levels too high. This is just my opinion on the matter. There are people in this thread that are very experienced when it comes to water chemistry, so they might have better advice. If I was in your shoes (which I was when I first started messing with my water) I would start the way I described above. I don't want to discourage you, but you might not hit it perfectly your first time. All things get better with experience..
I figure experience will dictate what direction to go in in the future. I will use lactic acid to get my pH on track according to EZ water calc. A question I do have is that when I dilute, it is going to bring my sulfate levels to about 20ppm. Is there a problem with this being so low because Palmer's recommendation is to keep it at a minimum of 50ppm.
__________________
Johnnyboy1012 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-22-2012, 05:40 PM   #44
Johnnyboy1012
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hackensack, NJ
Posts: 161
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Nerver mind, Martin Brungard already mentioned that the sulfate is not necessary

__________________
Johnnyboy1012 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-02-2012, 06:53 PM   #45
Johnnyboy1012
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hackensack, NJ
Posts: 161
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

So I am finally going to be brewing this beer tomorrow! I picked up 6 gallons of distilled water out of 9.5 total gallons. I am going to be using 5g of CaCl2 and 1 ml of lactic acid. Sulfate is low but from my understanding that is OK for this style of beer (imperial stout). Let me know what you think of my final profile! Thanks guys!
This is my final conclusion on my water profile:
Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 35
Mg: 8
Na: 46
Cl: 77
SO4: 21
CaCO3: 90

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 6.56 / 3.52
RO or distilled %: 38% / 100%

Total Grain (lb): 21.0

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaSO4: 0 / 0
CaCl2: 5 / 0
MgSO4: 0 / 0
NaHCO3: 0 / 0
CaCO3: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid (ml): 1
Sauermalz (oz): 0

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 77 / 50
Mg: 5 / 3
Na: 29 / 19
Cl: 145 / 94
SO4: 13 / 8
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 11.13 / 11.13

Alkalinity (CaCO3): 9
RA: -49
Estimated pH: 5.57
(room temp)

__________________
Johnnyboy1012 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-02-2012, 09:12 PM   #46
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 2,768
Liked 192 Times on 165 Posts
Likes Given: 24

Default

Uh....there is little wrong with that starting water profile if Imp Stout is the brew. There is likely to be a problem if you brew with that adjusted water. The alkalinity is going to be too low unless you are reserving all the crystal and roast malts until the end of the mash. And there could still be a problem with the pH of the wort in the kettle being too low due to the too low alkalinity. Something is wrong with your calculation unless there is very little roast or crystal in the grist. My Imp Stouts do include a significant amount and that might be a differentiator for your case.

In addition, the chloride content in the final water is getting on up there. You don't really need to go that high with either the Cl or the Ca. Why are you aiming this high?

__________________

Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water

mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-03-2012, 02:58 AM   #47
Johnnyboy1012
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hackensack, NJ
Posts: 161
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabrungard View Post
Uh....there is little wrong with that starting water profile if Imp Stout is the brew. There is likely to be a problem if you brew with that adjusted water. The alkalinity is going to be too low unless you are reserving all the crystal and roast malts until the end of the mash. And there could still be a problem with the pH of the wort in the kettle being too low due to the too low alkalinity. Something is wrong with your calculation unless there is very little roast or crystal in the grist. My Imp Stouts do include a significant amount and that might be a differentiator for your case.

In addition, the chloride content in the final water is getting on up there. You don't really need to go that high with either the Cl or the Ca. Why are you aiming this high?
I am not sure exactly what my exact numbers should look like. I diluted with distilled to bring my Na down to under 20ppm. I added calcium chloride to bring my numbers minimums. Ca is about 50ppm and Cl is less then 100ppm. I am not sure what else to do with my water to hit the right numbers. So are you saying I should brew with my original tap water? Even if it is at 46ppm of Na?

Or are you saying to dilute with distilled and not add calcium chloride which would give me : Ca 14, Mg 3, Na 19, Cl 31, SO4 8... Let me know, thanks for the feedback!
__________________
Johnnyboy1012 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-03-2012, 03:29 AM   #48
Stauffbier
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Stauffbier's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 5,098
Liked 1015 Times on 623 Posts
Likes Given: 2695

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboy1012 View Post
I am not sure exactly what my exact numbers should look like. !
If you haven't read this already, it might help to give you some guidance..
http://howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-2.html
__________________
Bier war sein letztes wort dann trugen ihn die Englein fort...

Stauffbier is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-03-2012, 04:42 AM   #49
gbx
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 637
Liked 76 Times on 61 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stauffbier View Post
If you haven't read this already, it might help to give you some guidance..
http://howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-2.html
This will have you replicating a bs classic city water profile of...london?...i guess thats where imperial stouts originally came from. AJ and Brungard are both experts (you will see AJ cited in How To Brew) and you are better off going with their advice.

Water is the most confusing aspect of homebrewing and there is no agreement among the experts. Read about this stuff if it interests you but don't stress too much about it. Brew the beer, see how it turns out and make adjustments on future batches based off of your results
__________________
gbx is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-03-2012, 01:24 PM   #50
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 2,768
Liked 192 Times on 165 Posts
Likes Given: 24

Default

Although 100 ppm is a general limit for chloride, that doesn't mean that you should try and hit it. A more modest chloride concentration may be more pleasant. The sodium concentration at 46 ppm is not desirable, but isn't really too high. You could get by with that sodium content and diluting at 1:1 would make it cleaner, but its not a requirement. My primary advice is not to go overboard on the chloride, but I see that you were just using the calcium chloride to boost your Ca to a desirable minimum. Given that the sulfate is at such low concentration, you could afford to boost the calcium content with a bit of gypsum to help reach the calcium goal. Imp Stout is not all about malt. There can be some hop expression and the drying effect of sulfate could actually be welcome in this big beer.

The proposed water profile should still work well, so don't be afraid to try it. If you brew this beer again and you found the original too sweet or lacking in a more drying finish, then you might try a touch more sulfate and touch less chloride.

Enjoy!

__________________

Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water

mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water for Partial Mash Russian Imperial Stout laserghost All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 1 06-02-2012 11:30 PM
Plain 'Ol Stout vs. Imperial Stout ? kontreren All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 4 03-23-2011 02:31 AM
Water Profile for Russian Imperial Stout Bobby_M All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 27 01-23-2011 03:51 PM
Russian Imperial Stout Water Help xerotime All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 11-06-2010 10:45 AM
Dec 08 BYO Imperial Stout johnnyc All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 10 11-20-2009 02:53 PM