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Old 05-20-2012, 07:32 PM   #21
mendozer
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if there are no chunks, i'm fine without it. i like a cloudy beer anyway i dont filter



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Old 05-20-2012, 07:52 PM   #22
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I had tannin flavor issues with a fine crush and not vorloufing. When i started vorloufing about 2 gallons worth. I got rid of the flavor issue.



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Old 05-20-2012, 08:19 PM   #23
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I vorlauf about 2 quarts at the beginning of lautering, and then 2 quarts again when I start lautering the sparge (I do a single batch sparge). The wort is always pretty clear after running two quarts.

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Old 05-20-2012, 10:59 PM   #24
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For me, the only thing that has contributed to tannins/harshness was the fine particles. A little bit of protein/cloudiness in the runnings is no worry for me (full disclosure - I don't do delicate lagers).

I do batch, less than a quart of vorlauf, and use a double strainer after that for any more that occurs when I open the valve wide open. Sometimes I've gotten a few particles in the strainer, which is why I use it. Hard to know for certain every little process change that affects flavor, but why screw with perfection? (I love my beers better than any micro brew these days)

But the point is that the majority of stuff that will cause some issues you can actually taste is in the first quart, even for fairly fine grind batch sparging.

As a side note, if BIAB works well, it seems like just lining the cooler with the same filtering bag and just opening the spigot full bore right away would work, assuming the first little bit of hazy protein in the vorlauf would not affect flavor. But to trade 5 minutes for sparging for 5 minutes of cleaning the bag - not gonna happen.

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Old 05-20-2012, 11:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBenn
...
But the point is that the majority of stuff that will cause some issues you can actually taste is in the first quart, even for fairly fine grind batch sparging.
...
come to think of it, I've never tasted the cloudy first bit against the tail end of the first runnings. I'll have to do that now, curious. I usually just taste when I take a pre-boil gravity.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:40 PM   #26
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It is the grain bed that filters out big chunks medium chunks small chunks tiny chunks and nano chunks. Just try taking out the coarse grain from your mash leaving fine bits of grain and cloudy liquid, then filtering through cloth or muslin, the cloudiness always stays assuming filter times of less than 6 hours.

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Old 05-23-2012, 04:56 AM   #27
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I don't usually bother. I do run it through a metal coffee filter though for the first few minutes so I guess I'm accomplishing the same thing.

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Old 05-23-2012, 01:25 PM   #28
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on an episode of brewing tv they profiled a guy who does not vorlauf and he claims that the cloudy first runnings of the mash provide lipids that the yeast use later on. who knows about that but i stopped doing a vorlauf after seeing that episode and have noticed no bad effects in the finished beer, in fact i won second place in the world cup of beer APA category. the bits of grain and husks do not seem to matter at all in my experience. it could be that there is something about my process that keeps my beer safe from harm. i don't do anything but filter my water through an RV filter and i have no idea about the mineral content but my local brewery does nothing to their water but filter so i gave that a shot too. either way seems to work so i don't think it's a critical issue.

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Old 05-23-2012, 01:59 PM   #29
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i'll play devil's advocate here...why would commercial breweries bother with vorlauf if it didn't improve the beer? They are always looking for shortcuts and cost-saving options, yet I've never heard of any brewery skipping vorlauf, unless they are utilizing a mash filter. So in the case of those breweries that use a mash filter...why would they install & invest large capital just to be able to skip vorlauf?

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Old 05-23-2012, 02:20 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telejunkie View Post
i'll play devil's advocate here...why would commercial breweries bother with vorlauf if it didn't improve the beer? They are always looking for shortcuts and cost-saving options, yet I've never heard of any brewery skipping vorlauf, unless they are utilizing a mash filter. So in the case of those breweries that use a mash filter...why would they install & invest large capital just to be able to skip vorlauf?
this may be true but i would argue that homebrew is better than commercial beer in most cases anyway. it would be interesting to see a comparison of two, or more, identical beers brewed with the vorlauf being the only variable.


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