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Old 04-03-2007, 02:35 PM   #1
Steve973
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Default Very hard to get info from DFH Brewery!

Hey All,

I'm working up a recipe that clones or at least approximates DFH 90 Minute IPA. I have read a couple of recipes online, and took into consideration the types of hops that they say they use (on the six-pack container). So I've been calling them, trying to talk to brewers, but it's *REALLY* hard to get anyone to talk to me, or to get much information from anyone who actually gets on the phone.

The guy that I talked to this morning tried to convince me that 1 addition every 10 minutes (10 additions total including one addition at flame-out) wouldn't yield a character anywhere close to theirs. He stressed that "continuous" is really the key, and that additions every 10 or 5 minutes wouldn't work.

I was coming up with a hop schedule as follows:

1/2 oz columbus
1 oz simcoe
2 oz amarillo

This is divided up so that each ten minute addition would consist of:

.05 oz columbus
.1 oz simcoe
.2 oz amarillo

If every ten minutes isn't good enough, it'd be easy to throw half of this quantity into the boil every five minutes. Ok, it's not exactly continuous, but it's pretty darn close!

I came up with 16.5 pounds of english 2-row pale malt along with a half pound of amber malt for some color and the light roastiness that amber malt provides. In the recipes that I've seen, they suggest way too much amber malt, and the resultant color would be pretty dark. Anyway, my grain bill starts at around 1.090 and ends up in the low twenties, resulting in a 9% beer, which seems to be basically on target.

I'm also curious about yeast. Would white labs dry english ale yeast be a good choice? Would something with a good malt profile get me closer, or would a more "neutral" yeast have a better effect?

It's crazy that this place is that secretive. I've called many other major breweries, and they've been more than happy to help a fellow brewer get on the right track.

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Old 04-03-2007, 02:49 PM   #2
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What are you trying to get from them? Are you trying to tell the brewer that you know more than he does? It sounds like you were being argumentative about their continuous hopping technique.

Furthermore, you're asking for the recipe for one of their more expensive products. I'm not surprised they're secretive about it. Most other beers have recipes posted all over the net, so the brewer's willingness is more from a damage-control point of view. They don't want someone to create a crappy product and then tell their friends that it's a clone of a beer that in reality tastes much better. If the friends hate the clone homebrew, they may hesitate on purchasing the original.

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Old 04-03-2007, 02:55 PM   #3
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Uh, yeah, if I had the proprietary recipe to a popular product, I'd hesitate to broadcast the exact recipe too.

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Old 04-03-2007, 02:56 PM   #4
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I didn't argue with anybody, and I didn't actually get to talk to a brewer. The guy that I talked to was just someone at the brewery who was answering the phones and confirmed that he wasn't a brewer. I just listened to him, and then posted here to share my opinions.

I just wanted to discuss my recipe and get some pointers. I was clear that I didn't want to necessarily clone to beer, but that I wanted to be pointed in the right direction.

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Old 04-03-2007, 02:59 PM   #5
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The whole idea of the DFH 90 (and 60, and 120) is the continuous hop additions. Gimmick or not (I tend to think it may be), they aren't going to come out and say "Yeah, it's a bunch of BS, it's really no better than making additions every ten minutes!". I mean, that's really the core of their flagship products, you could argue that the continuous additions on these products is the core of the entire company. You're not going to get them to give in on that issue.

As to their overall level of secrecy, I'd say that's their call. Some breweries are more open (I'm pretty sure Dude's Pliny clone originally came from a recipe that Vinnie himself basically gave out). If so - awesome! - if not, I can respect that, too.

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Old 04-03-2007, 03:00 PM   #6
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http://www.brew365.com/beer_dogfish_...minute_ipa.php

This might help.
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Old 04-03-2007, 03:08 PM   #7
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in my experience Sam Calagione has been a great person to talk to. I've never had him on the phone but I have spoken with him on several occasions at brew-fests and at a book signing. He was very open about recipes and techniques (which I found to be fascinating btw). Now the guy on the phone on the other hand is an employee doing a job. I don't blame him for a) not wanting to talk to you and b) not wanting to give out his bosses award winning recipe!

FWIW you can build a continuous pellet hopper for under $50 and they work pretty well. Check out back issues of BYO or give Zok a call (he is a local home brewer in CT who owns a LHBS. he makes a ton of award winning beers and built a few continuous hoppers for some people around here.

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Old 04-03-2007, 03:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krispy d
FWIW you can build a continuous pellet hopper for under $50 and they work pretty well. Check out back issues of BYO or give Zok a call (he is a local home brewer in CT who owns a LHBS. he makes a ton of award winning beers and built a few continuous hoppers for some people around here.

I always figured that they just automated it.
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Old 04-03-2007, 03:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebisch01
I always figured that they just automated it.
just found the article

BYO - DIY projects
Continuous Wort Hopper (Mar.-Apr. 06)

and clone recipe:
All Grain Recipe - Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA (clone) ::: 1.064/1.019 (5 Gal)
Grain Bill

13 lbs. - 2 Row Pale Malt
6 oz. - Thomas Fawcett Amber Malt
Hop Schedule - 60 IBU

3/4 oz. - Warrior - 60 to 35 min. continuous*
1/3 oz. - Simcoe - 35 to 35 min. continuous*
3/4 oz. - Palisade - 25 to 0 min. continuous*
1/2 oz. - Amarillo - dry hop
1/2 oz. - Simcoe - dry hop
1/2 oz. - Glacier - dry hop
Yeast

Wyeast 1187 Ringwood Ale Yeast - 1800 ml. starter
Mash/Sparge/Boil

Mash In at 152° for 60 min - sparge as usual
Boil time : 60 min.
Cool and ferment at 71° to 74°
Notes

*Continuous Hopping - Dogfish Head uses a device to slowly add a measured amount of hops over time into the boil rather then addin the whole addition at once.
This is a good brew to have a buddy handy to toss in the hops, pre-measured in their own dish, throughout the boil. It is a good technique and the commercial example of this beer is one of my very favorite IPAs.
This Recipe Appeared in the March-April 2006 edition of BYO Magazine
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Old 04-03-2007, 04:09 PM   #10
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I don't know if you can say they are secretive at all. Sam Calagione has written at least two books that I have seen. One is about how he started and grew the business to where it is today; the other it about beer and actually has a recipe for 60 Minute IPA (I didn't see one for 90 minute, but I wasn't really looking for it). I can't think of too many other breweries that actually give out recipes on how to make their products at home.

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