Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Two AG brews down, same problem

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-08-2012, 03:05 PM   #1
mrkrausen
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mrkrausen's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 358
Liked 15 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default Two AG brews down, same problem

So I did my second AG yesterday. Everything went okay, but it definitely could have gone better. I hit my mash temp right on the dot and it held for the entire 60 minutes. Again I collected ~2gal less wort from the mash than I mashed with. I'm not so much concerned about this after searching some posts on this forum. I have been losing the expected .12-.13qt/lb so that seems to be in line. My issue comes with the collection of my sparge water when batch sparging. I have come up between .5-.7 gal short both times. I've heard you should get pretty much no loss when sparging. I'm wondering if this amount seems reasonable? I still had some hot water left over in the kettle so I just ran ~1gal through it and collected the .5gal I needed. I think I'll just add .5gal to what the brewing software says to use for sparging.

My next problem is with my boil off. I collected 6.5 preboil and once I got a sample cooled down took a reading. It was 1.063 which is only 1 pt lower than it was predicted. After my boil I only collected ~4.9gal so I had to top off to get to my target of 5.5gal going into the fermentor. After chilling that sample I took a reading and it read 1.063. That reading was actually 10pts lower than it should have been and it makes no sense to me how the reading could be the same with less volume. As far as my boil off, the previous batch I maintained a rolling boil but this time it was a bit more vigorous and it was about 104°F out. So I'm thinking that's why I had such a high loss. I went in to my brewing program and increased my boil off rate some since I came up short both times. We'll see if those changes help get it dialed in. If any one has any advice on how I can straighten this out it would be greatly appreciated.

__________________

I'm in over my head...fortunately that's right where I like to be.

mrkrausen is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2012, 03:06 PM   #2
mrkrausen
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mrkrausen's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 358
Liked 15 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default Two AG brews down, same problem

So I did my second AG yesterday. Everything went okay, but it definitely could have gone better. I hit my mash temp right on the dot and it held for the entire 60 minutes. Again I collected ~2gal less wort from the mash than I mashed with. I'm not so much concerned about this after searching some posts on this forum. I have been losing the expected .12-.13qt/lb so that seems to be in line. My issue comes with the collection of my sparge water when batch sparging. I have come up between .5-.7 gal short both times. I've heard you should get pretty much no loss when sparging. I'm wondering if this amount seems reasonable? I still had some hot water left over in the kettle so I just ran ~1gal through it and collected the .5gal I needed. I think I'll just add .5gal to what the brewing software says to use for sparging.

My next problem is with my boil off. I collected 6.5 preboil and once I got a sample cooled down took a reading. It was 1.063 which is only 1 pt lower than it was predicted. After my boil I only collected ~4.9gal so I had to top off to get to my target of 5.5gal going into the fermentor. After chilling that sample I took a reading and it read 1.063. That reading was actually 10pts lower than it should have been and it makes no sense to me how the reading could be the same with less volume. As far as my boil off, the previous batch I maintained a rolling boil but this time it was a bit more vigorous and it was about 104°F out. So I'm thinking that's why I had such a high loss. I went in to my brewing program and increased my boil off rate some since I came up short both times. We'll see if those changes help get it dialed in. If any one has any advice on how I can straighten this out it would be greatly appreciated.

__________________

I'm in over my head...fortunately that's right where I like to be.

mrkrausen is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2012, 03:17 PM   #3
Vagrant
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Vagrant's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A Marriott near you
Posts: 133
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

1st Q) If you're hitting your preboil gravities, don't worry so much about volume. If you want more volume, adjust your malt bill and adjust your sparge volume/brewhouse efficiency as necessary.

2nd Q) Think about it. You were 1.063 preboil. Post boil you were X. You diluted it with water so now you're X - Y. X - Y = 1.063. Meaning you *were* at something higher than 1.063 post boil (maybe 1.073?), but you diluted it when you added water to top off to the volume you wanted. You need to figure your target volume and gravity into your recipe before you boil (see above). You can't just add water to adjust volume without it diluting the overall recipe.

__________________
Vagrant is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2012, 03:18 PM   #4
duboman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Glenview, IL
Posts: 6,032
Liked 459 Times on 426 Posts
Likes Given: 207

Default

It's great that you are taking detailed notes in your process because everything you are doing is easy to fix. The values that you have determined you are losing need to be added into your software as losses in the process, then the software will add those amounts back as part of your mashing in, sparging processes so your final volumes are met. In addition it appears your boil off may be greater than what you currently have listed in your equipment set up. Boil off is tricky because there are differences related to weather, humidity, temperature and vigor of the boil but you should be able to get close enough where it's not a huge deal.

It usually takes several batches of brewing to get a good handle on all the settings required for software and being sure to input all the right values, once done though, the software will do a great job on calculating everything properly!

__________________
duboman is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2012, 04:26 PM   #5
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 21,890
Liked 934 Times on 621 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

You probably need to increase the "mashtun deadspace" figure a little in your software.

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!

New Stuff?
Bobby_M is offline
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2012, 04:43 PM   #6
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,243
Liked 420 Times on 320 Posts
Likes Given: 503

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
You probably need to increase the "mashtun deadspace" figure a little in your software.
Bobby scores again!
__________________

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014

Denny is offline
phoenixs4r Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2012, 04:56 PM   #7
Pie_Man
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Pie_Man's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 1,344
Liked 132 Times on 124 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

I agree with the other posts, you should adjust your mash tun's dead space (I tip my mash tun which helps with dead space loss). Adjust your boil off rate and make sure your batch size is set properly to the amount you want in the fermenter.

As for your second question, one of the readings, and/or your volume measurements were off. Walking through the math, a preboil gravity reading of 1.063 is 409.5 total gravity points (63 * 6.5). Boiling to 4.9 gallons would be a 1.084 reading (409.5/4.9), then topping off to 5.5 gallons and you're at 1.074 (409.5/5.5). I think I did the math correctly...

I hope this helps, as others have mentioned all of this is easily fixable for future batches. Taking detailed notes as you did is key to dialing in your estimates within your brewing software.

__________________
Pie_Man is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2012, 05:02 PM   #8
Pie_Man
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Pie_Man's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 1,344
Liked 132 Times on 124 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

I'll also add that over 1.5 gallons of wort loss seems like a lot to me. Was this a 60 minute boil? My boil off rate is around .75 gallons per hour.

__________________
Pie_Man is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2012, 05:37 PM   #9
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,243
Liked 420 Times on 320 Posts
Likes Given: 503

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pie_Man View Post
I'll also add that over 1.5 gallons of wort loss seems like a lot to me. Was this a 60 minute boil? My boil off rate is around .75 gallons per hour.
I lose 1.5 gal. an hour easy. Sometimes a bit more.
__________________

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014

Denny is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2012, 05:44 PM   #10
Cromwell
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 777
Liked 72 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 132

Default

Sorry, I'm really confused. How does increasing mash tun deadspace in the software change his gravity, efficiency or boil off rate?

__________________

Primary: Beer / Secondary: Beer / Lagering: Old beer.

Cromwell is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2 Brews In 1 Session csamson All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 14 09-04-2011 02:14 AM
2 brews 1 day bryanjints All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 13 05-11-2010 08:44 PM
First 2 AG brews Homercidal All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 1 04-16-2009 05:47 PM
Two brews one mash cthompson116 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 4 03-13-2009 08:23 PM
Mistake during last 2 brews chemist308 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 4 01-01-2009 07:04 PM