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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > troubleshooting: dms-like flavor problem (husky, grainy, cabbagelike?)

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Old 01-05-2013, 02:17 PM   #11
duboman
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Originally Posted by chumpsteak View Post
5.0 to 5.2 is low for mash pH, anywhere from 5.2 to 5.7 is fine, but the ideal range after 15 minutes is 5.3 to 5.6 roughly. Tons of info on water in the brew science forum.

That water report looks really good. Very soft water like you said. I would be mostly concerned about any amount of chlorine or chloramines in the tap water. If your bottled water batch turns out good you can probably get by with using a chloramine tablet in your tap water and your beers will turn out great. IMO chlorine and chloramines cause chlorophenols which cause a range of off flavors and weirdness.
The ph listed in the water report the OP attached is 6.7-9.8 which is pretty high IMO. My concern was that the grain bills are not bringing the ph down to a more adequate range and is remaining high during the mash although I could be wrong.

When the OP brewed with bottled water his mash ph read 5.0 which, yes is a little low but that is not with his city water supply.

As far as tannin extraction it is my understanding that this is only a concern if too hot a water (over 170) is used to sparge in conjunction with a high ph. If the sparge water is is within proper range tannin extraction is not a concern.

I admit I am not the most water chemistry intelligent brewer so I will defer to those more in tune that chime in
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by duboman

The ph listed in the water report the OP attached is 6.7-9.8 which is pretty high IMO. My concern was that the grain bills are not bringing the ph down to a more adequate range and is remaining high during the mash although I could be wrong.

When the OP brewed with bottled water his mash ph read 5.0 which, yes is a little low but that is not with his city water supply.

As far as tannin extraction it is my understanding that this is only a concern if too hot a water (over 170) is used to sparge in conjunction with a high ph. If the sparge water is is within proper range tannin extraction is not a concern.

I admit I am not the most water chemistry intelligent brewer so I will defer to those more in tune that chime in
I am no water chemistry expert either, but it is my understanding that too alkaline a mash is sufficient to extract tannins. Hot sparging would exacerbate the problem.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:03 PM   #13
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The ph listed in the water report the OP attached is 6.7-9.8 which is pretty high IMO.
The pH of the water is of little importance. The residual alkalinity of the water is, as it is the combination of that and the grist bill which basically determines the pH of the mash which is important. As both the residual alkalinity and Ca+ content of the NYC water are both extremely low a typical pale mash would probably be on the high side although still far enough below 6.0 to not have to worry about the dreaded tannin extraction problem. If the OP does have a tannin problem, which it doesn't sound like from his description, it would probably come from over-sparging. A modest Ca+ addition to the mash here would likely bring the mash pH into a very good range along with improving the conversion factor and runoff.
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