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Old 08-04-2008, 09:43 PM   #11
jacksonbrown
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Originally Posted by CBBaron View Post
You are doing a mashout, then a batch sparge. If you were like me and didn't have room to add additional water before starting the sparge then you would skip the mashout step. Since you are adding water then it makes sense to add in such a way to become a mashout.

So basically your batch sparge technique accomplishes a mashout. But that does not mean that a mashout and batch sparge are the same thing.
I should have been more clear. I drain my first runnings, then batch sparge. My my first half of the sparge is 180-190, sits for 5-10 min, drains, then repeat with 168 deg water. When I did mash outs I would not drain the first run, but add 180-190 deg water, sit, drain, sparge once with 168 deg water. Now I'm just getting confused. So, I think what you're telling me, is that my first half of the batch sparge does not need to be at 180-190, but can be at 168. Which would effectively make them two different things.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:02 PM   #12
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The way I see it, a mashout has two purposes: (1) Raise the grain bed to 168F or above to denature the amylase enzymes and prevent further conversion, (2) Raise the wort temperature to dissolve sugars and other desirables into the sparge water.

For batch spargers (like myself), #1 is less important than for fly spargers, because our wort goes into the boil kettle faster, so additional conversion from start of sparge to boil isn't as big of a factor. #2 is important in that the more sugars you dissolve, the better you can approach "ideal" efficiency.

I don't perform a mashout per se. I, like many others, heat my sparge water to 175F before batch sparging. My process is mash, drain, sparge twice with 175F water. With this method, I'm getting 75-78% efficiency, which is acceptable to me. Once I complete construction of my direct-fired mash tun, I'll probably experiment with adding a mashout step, just to see if I can get into the 80% range.

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Old 08-05-2008, 07:33 AM   #13
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Yea, what jds said :
When I batch sparge, my first running's/collection goes right into the boil pot that I'm heating right away, (electric stove, low BTU's). It is close to boiling by the time I add the next collection. I have done FWH yet as I have been making light beers but that is also a great time if your going for a high IBU beer.
For this case, a mash out just takes away from the amount of sparge water that you need to rinse out the sugars in the mash. Of course 1gal or less of boiling water may help in de-solving and draining the sugars from the first collection. Just make sure you stir well, and give it enough time for diffusion to work and extract the right level of sugars, otherwise your hurting more than your helping.

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Old 08-05-2008, 01:51 PM   #14
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I've consistently found that assuming a double sparge (two half volume infusions), I LOSE about 2-4% efficiency if I did a mash out infusion.

Just for clarification, a mashout infusion is one that occurs after the sac rest but prior to running off wort. You can use a smallish volume of boiling water to acheive the equilibrium temp of 168F.

While it does make sugars more soluable which would suggest higher efficiency, the trade off is the fact that you are leaving yourself with less sparge volume. You may think it doesn't matter when the water is infused but it matters quite a bit.

Since batch sparging works on the principal of diffusion (high sugar levels diffuse into areas of low sugar levels to equilibrium), adding a small amount of 1.000 gravity water to a high gravity mash wort does very little for you.

I'm sure there are all kinds of scientific theories that could be employed to explain it better but I can anecdotally say that skipping the mash out and sparging twice with 185F water is a little better than using a mash out infusion.

However, I now have a direct fired MLT so I can have my cake and eat it too. That is, I get the mash to 168F without wasting any sparge water.

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Old 08-05-2008, 02:42 PM   #15
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Yeah, I have noticed a drop in efficiency when I did my last two batches with a mash-out. Which is part of what prompted my questioning the differences. You all rock.

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Old 08-05-2008, 03:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonbrown View Post
I was just thinking about this. And I'm curious what people think. Is there really a difference between performing a batch sparge and a mash out? The goal in both is to raise you grain bed temp to 168. In the mash out, you add hot water, rest, drain, add water, drain. In the batch sparge you drain the first wort, and sparge twice. So, where does the difference lie? What does one method do for you that the other does not?
Actually, a mashout infusion without further risning is a no-sparge technique. You add your full boil volume, vorlauf and drain. Your efficiency will be south of 60% generally, which will cost you a few dollars per batch. Though some will argue against the validity of this technique, I use it regularly with excellent results. You obviously need a spacious Mash Tun.

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