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-   -   Stove Top All-Grain (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/stove-top-all-grain-91404/)

Pelikan 12-03-2008 12:24 PM

Stove Top All-Grain
 
I searched around a bit for an answer to this, so please don't slap me with the wet noodle...

...I'm flirting with the idea of doing full boils, split between two pots. According to the 1.25 quarts/pound partial mash rule, I'd be able to swing about 9.5 total pounds of grain (3 gallon mash in one pot, 3 gallon sparge in the other...combine afterward, then divvy the remainder between the two pots and continue with the boil).

For some of my recipes, this is enough for all-grain. Is stove top all grain as simple as a stove top partial mash, but without the extract?

flyangler18 12-03-2008 12:32 PM

No noodle slapping here, mate. :mug: I respect my pasta delicacies!

To your question: I've not done AG 5 gallon batches on my stovetop, but I should be able to offer some guidance to your process. What is your boil-off rate? This will determine how much wort should be collected to acheive your post-boil volume. I lose about 1.5 gallons over a 90 minute boil on my outdoor rig, so to hit 6 gallons in the kettle at the end of my boil with 5.5 gallons going into the carboy, I need to collect 7.5 gallons total volume.

Using this figure for two pots, 3.75 gallons would go into each vessel and boil as usual.

Yooper 12-03-2008 12:45 PM

I've done AG on my stovetop, and still do. When I had a smaller pot, I did a split boil. It will work just fine.

One thing, though- I don't think you don't want to boil your mash runnings and sparge runnings separate. You want to combine them, and then split them. This is for the hops utilization and the malliard reaction. What I"m saying is, you don't want 1/2 the batch to be runnings of say, 1.060, and the other to be runnings of 1.020. That will cause some decreased hops utilization in one pot (and increased in the other) so the IBUs may be unpredictable. It also might cause some carmelly flavors in the pot with the heavier runnings. What I would do is either use some sort of MLT and then drain the runnings into the pot, splitting half and half, or combine the runnings in your bottling bucket and divide that way. So however you combine your runnings will work, but you may want to consider building a cheap MLT for the ease of use.

You're right in that PM is the same as AG, just with more grain.

Pelikan 12-03-2008 01:05 PM

Cool. I was planning to pour both the mash and the sparge into a graduated bucket, mixing them, then siphoning them evenly between the two pots. This raises the question, can the buckets stand up to 150-160 degree water?

The boil-off rate is what's going to be the thorn in my side, I suppose. Based upon earlier correspondence, I've more or less determined that ~9.5 pounds of grain is going to absorb about 1 gallon of water right off the top. So with my above 3 + 3, that would bring it down to five right off the top.

As far as my boil, I do 60 minutes with a fair degree of regularity. I'm not terribly high above sea level, so I don't think altitude will factor in.

So should I perhaps do a 4 gallon mash and a 3 gallon sparge to get 6 gallons going into the boil, and top off the primary just a touch if required? Or maybe the other way around, 3 + 4? ...or 3.5/3.5?

All in all, I'd rather be a touch low and top off just a bit as opposed to a touch high.

flyangler18 12-03-2008 01:35 PM

I could definitely construct a cheap MLT using FlyGuy's cooler conversion (have you already done this?) to facilitate easier mashing and lose the notion of fixed mash and sparge volumes. In other words, sparge with a volume (not exceeding .5 gallon/lb of grain) to get you to your preboil volume after measuring the volume of your first runnings.

Let me run through the math:

For 9.5 lbs of grain, you'll mash with 11.875 qts (2.97 gallons, just round it up to 3 gallons). With my equipment, I typically see absorption of .10 gallons/lb from the first runnings, or .95 gallons for your 9.5 lb grainbill. Close enough to a gallon.

So, let's say your first runnings are 2 gallons (3 gallons, approx 1 gallon absorbed by grain). If you are targeting a preboil volume of, say, 7 gallons- the arithmetic determine that you need to sparge with 5 gallons. To boost efficiency (and not exceed .5 gallons per lb), split the sparge into two equal volumes- 2.5 gallons. Collect 7 total gallons of wort, stir well, split between your two kettles and boil away.

Yooper 12-03-2008 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelikan (Post 987254)
Cool. I was planning to pour both the mash and the sparge into a graduated bucket, mixing them, then siphoning them evenly between the two pots. This raises the question, can the buckets stand up to 150-160 degree water?

The boil-off rate is what's going to be the thorn in my side, I suppose. Based upon earlier correspondence, I've more or less determined that ~9.5 pounds of grain is going to absorb about 1 gallon of water right off the top. So with my above 3 + 3, that would bring it down to five right off the top.

As far as my boil, I do 60 minutes with a fair degree of regularity. I'm not terribly high above sea level, so I don't think altitude will factor in.

So should I perhaps do a 4 gallon mash and a 3 gallon sparge to get 6 gallons going into the boil, and top off the primary just a touch if required? Or maybe the other way around, 3 + 4? ...or 3.5/3.5?

All in all, I'd rather be a touch low and top off just a bit as opposed to a touch high.

Sure, my bucket worked as a MLT (lined with a big grain bag) when I did PM's. You don't have to siphon the wort, but be careful about too much splashing (that will bring up the whole HSA- hot side aeration- debate), so just gently pour it.

You want to mash at about 1.25 quarts/pound of grain to 1.50 quarts/pound. If you're short on volume, you can increase the sparge water to up to .5 gallons of water per pound. So, say you're mashing 9.5 pounds of grain. You'd mash in with just about 3 gallons of water. If you have absorption of .1 gallon per pound, nearly one gallon would be absorbed by the grain. So, you'd have your first runnings of nearly two gallons. But you can sparge with up to 4.75 gallons of water. That can bring you up to 6.5 gallons for your boil. Or you can sparge with 4 gallons, and boil a total of 6 gallons knowing that you may end up with a bit less than 5 gallons in the fermenter.

Once you do it, you'll know your boil off rate, so that will make it easier for the next time.

TimSTi 12-03-2008 02:11 PM

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy...ng-pics-90132/

DeathBrewer 12-03-2008 03:24 PM

there it is :D

TimSTi 12-03-2008 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathBrewer (Post 987595)
there it is :D

I read the OP and instantly realized he hadn't seen your awesome post. Had to spread the love :mug:

Cascadie 12-04-2008 12:20 AM

The best beer I've made yet was EdWort's Haus Pale Ale done on the stovetop with Brew In a Bag, aka BIAB. I guestimated how much hops to put in each pot since they were not equal volumes and was very pleased with the whole experience.

Cascadie


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