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Old 10-20-2012, 04:25 PM   #1
cain_h
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Default Specialty grain percentages when moving to All grain

So I recently started converting my recipes from extract with specialty grains to all-grain BIAB in BeerSmith. The main question I have about the conversion though is should you keep the grain percentages the same or should you keep the amount in oz/lbs the same for specialty grains and just increase/decrease base malts to hit target values.

Keeping the percentage the same makes sense from the stand point of the recipes as a whole but keeping the specialty grain amounts the same makes sense from the stand point of amount of flavor contributed by specialty grains to the same volume of final beer.

For example if an old recipe for simplicity sake was
8.5lbs (85%) Pale Extract
1lb (10%) crystal 60
.5lb (5%) roast barley

and I moved it to BIAB at 65% eff

would it become

Percentages the same:
6.66lbs (85%) Pale 2row
12.7oz (10%) crystal 60
6.3oz (5%) roast barley

or

Specialty grain amount stay the same and base changes:
6.375lbs (81%) Pale 2row
1lb (12.5%) crystal 60
.5lb (6.5%) roast barley

taking it one step further if I were to change the crush on the grain and the efficiency increased would I again alter just the base or should I also alter the specialty grains?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

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Old 10-20-2012, 04:34 PM   #2
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Something doesn't look right. If you were previosly using 8+ pounds of extract you are going to need over double the amount of two row, especially at 65% efficiency.

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Old 10-20-2012, 04:39 PM   #3
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Niether...Roughly speaking specialty grains would remain the same, and you need to achieve the same amount of fermentables from the base grain. % extract will not be the same as % base grains based on weight as they contribute different amounts of fermentables...this is based on PPG's or gravity points per gallon...off the top of my head, a lb of LME is roughly equal to 1 1/2 pounds of 2 row. Of course this all depends on the extract, DME is about 20% more PPG's than LME, and 2row PPG's all depend on your efficiency.

Very roughly speaking, sub about 1 1/2 times base grain for LME extract (20% more for DME), and specialties remain the same...now to complicate matters more, some extracts contain specialty malts of unknown percentages, in this case throw all the data out the window and follow your pallet...cheers.

The amount of base grain required will be the amount needed to achieve similar gravity wort b/w the AG and the extract recipe, and this is figured by the PPG's and efficiency of AG.

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Old 10-20-2012, 05:45 PM   #4
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Jrems sorry bout that I screwed up the swap on the equipment in beersmith.

Thanks wilserbrewer

so it should be

12lbs 2row (89%)
1lb crystal 60 (7.4%)
.5lb roast barley (3.7%)

and not something like

11.5lbs 2 row (85%)
1lb 6oz crystal (10%)
10.9 oz roast (5%)

The thing that throws me off is that a lot of ingredients make claims about the taste the specialty grain gives based on the % that you use like with all of Briess's specification sheets. They should list it more as amount per 5 gal batch or something similar.

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Old 10-20-2012, 09:52 PM   #5
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Yea, I like #1 better, but I still have no idea if your extract was LME or DME so it is still a shot in the dark??? You need to use enough base malt to get your fermentables and gravity, w/ specialties added for flavor...and also a bit of gravity.

Play around w/ the brewbuilder at brewmasters warehouse to get an idea of how much base malt required for a certain gravity...???

Whatever the gravity of your extract batch, the AG should be similar w/ similar amounts of spec. grains "I believe" haha and cheers

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Old 10-20-2012, 10:43 PM   #6
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Not an all grain brewer so maybe this is not quite correct, but in partial mash you're just subbing base malts with ME, so wouldn't specialty grains be unaffected?

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Old 10-21-2012, 12:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhinoceroceros View Post
Not an all grain brewer so maybe this is not quite correct, but in partial mash you're just subbing base malts with ME, so wouldn't specialty grains be unaffected?
yes, more or less I guess
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:16 AM   #8
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Use the same amount of crystal as you did in your extract recipes. What you are converting rather is the grains replacing the extract itself.

*edit - missed that Wilserbrewer already answered this. So yeah, what he said.

Rev.

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Old 10-23-2012, 09:56 AM   #9
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I disagree. I say the % should remain the same. If you lose eff% you are losing runoff. Likewise you are losing an equivalent % of the nonfermentable sugars.

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Old 10-23-2012, 12:54 PM   #10
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"I disagree. I say the % should remain the same. If you lose eff% you are losing runoff. Likewise you are losing an equivalent % of the nonfermentable sugars."

No, generally you are just not getting good conversion. You are essentially steeping the crystal for an hour and you will get the same basic contribution from it even if your conversion stinks.

Just think of it this way. If you put the crystal in and got zero efficiency from the base grain, you would be at exactly the same point as if you just steeped in water.

You will lose "some" to the various inefficiencies of your system - eg any liquid left in the tun.

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