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**Aschecte** · 01-20-2013, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalFet

Hmm...I'm not sure what you mean by sugar density. Your sugar is in solution, so its density would really be calculated independently of the water under most conditions. Are you talking about viscosity? There's an argument to be made that colder temperatures increases water retention in the grain bed, but that never was my experience. That might have an impact on lautering rates for fly systems, though I still can't see why it would on a batch system like the one the OP is using.

Yooper explains the cost thing, though bottlebomber correctly mentions some degree of savings that would be had, specifically for the heat left in the grain bed. Like often happens in breweries, there's a tradeoff here between energy use and time.

Yeah you are correct I got so caught up in the temperature itself i forgot this thread was about batch Sparging. And yes I meant viscosity of the sugars.

**MalFet** · 01-20-2013, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aschecte

Yeah you are correct I got so caught up in the temperature itself i forgot this thread was about batch Sparging. And yes I meant viscosity of the sugars.

The viscosity question is an interesting one. It's certainly possible that the higher viscosity of cooler runnings could lead to something akin to channeling for fly spargers. That could in theory decrease efficiency.

**Aschecte** · 01-20-2013, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalFet

The viscosity question is an interesting one. It's certainly possible that the higher viscosity of cooler runnings could lead to something akin to channeling for fly spargers. That could in theory decrease efficiency.

That was my point but I have zero practical expierence as I fly sparge not batch I can only acedemically imagine the colder water would "gum" up the sugars inhibiting the flow and leave residual sugars behind. I will concede though if people are doing this with equal efficiency and results who am I to argue not to do it. I personally love when real world expierence wins out over what the books say is "the only way".

mcleanmj · 01-20-2013, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yooper

For batch sparging, draining at 1 quart/minute is not necessary. Since you stir in the sparge water thoroughly, you can just vorlauf and drain. It doesn't hurt, obviously, but one of the main advantages of batch sparging is the time savings. You can drain with the ball valve wide open, and get the same results.

Really? If this is true this would really cut down on my brew time, but I would be really cautious to even try it. How can full speed be sufficient enough to rinse all the sugar?

**bottlebomber** · 01-20-2013, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcleanmj

Really? If this is true this would really cut down on my brew time, but I would be really cautious to even try it. How can full speed be sufficient enough to rinse all the sugar?

I don't think anything rinses ALL the sugar. I can tell you that I mill my own grain, batch sparge, and get 77-80% efficiency every time with beers 1.080 and under in a 10 gallon cooler. I can't imagine getting better efficiency, or that a few extra points would be worth an extra half hour on the brew day.

**MalFet** · 01-20-2013, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcleanmj

Really? If this is true this would really cut down on my brew time, but I would be really cautious to even try it. How can full speed be sufficient enough to rinse all the sugar?

Rinsing is the wrong image to have of what happens during batch sparging. By the end of your mash, the sugars are no longer trapped in the endosperm of your grain, but rather are evenly distributed in solution through your mash water.

You drain your mashtun, but inevitably some quantity of sugar-rich water is left behind with the grain bed. When you add water for a batch sparge, what you are doing is diluting this water so you can reclaim more of the sugar when you drain again.

There's no rinsing, and likewise once you mix thoroughly you can drain as fast as your system allows.

mcleanmj · 01-21-2013, 02:56 AM

So drain the first running at 1 qt/minute, and once I sparge drain full flow and I will get the same efficiency?

**MalFet** · 01-21-2013, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcleanmj

So drain the first running at 1 qt/minute, and once I sparge drain full flow and I will get the same efficiency?

There's no need to slow down your drain for either the first runnings or the sparge in a batch system, really.

mcleanmj · 01-21-2013, 03:14 AM

from my experience when I've drained full speed my extraction was horrible, and when I've drained slowly my extraction was excellent

**MalFet** · 01-21-2013, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcleanmj

from my experience when I've drained full speed my extraction was horrible, and when I've drained slowly my extraction was excellent

If you're collapsing your stainless braid or something, and thus getting a stuck sparge, that's a different story. But, there's no reason your rate of draining should affect the gravity of your first runnings.