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Old 04-30-2013, 02:51 PM   #11
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I thought the FTC was supposed to prevent advertisers from making false claims.

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5.2 is a proprietary blend of buffers that will lock in your mash and kettle water at a pH of 5.2 regardless of the starting pH of your water.
http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/bre...wing/products/

I can see how people are fooled, that’s pretty enticing. A little magic powder and your problems are solved.

IMO it’s worse than nothing, because it provides false hope. It could prevent people from using techniques that actually work.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:29 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Wynne-R View Post
I thought the FTC was supposed to prevent advertisers from making false claims.
I did too but I expect that this would be pretty far down their list of priorities.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:42 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Wynne-R View Post
I thought the FTC was supposed to prevent advertisers from making false claims.
Generally someone has to file a complaint before the FTC can investigate and take action against a business. They can't just automatically screen every product out on the market.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:29 AM   #14
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[QUOTE="ajdelange"]

You have to admire a man who, after having been told that 5.2 can only detriment his beer and why decides to continue to use it.

Just want to clarify... The beer I brew has been good and I enjoy it. I was not born with inherent water chemistry knowledge. I am learning. Since I learn mostly on my own, I have used the 5.2 and I have not had any "detrimental" effects from it. Furthermore; since I started using it I have gotten a better efficiency in my mashes. (From about 65 to 78 efficiency now).

I agree yes it does sound too good to be true, and I know that it is not chemically possible to just throw in magic 5.2 powder and get Ideal pH no matter what beginning pH is, like the explanation on the can.

I realize there are a lot of knowledgable people on this forum, and that is why I post my questions. I appreciate the helpful information but the smart remarks I can live without.

I will look into a pH probe and a TDS probe to test my RO unit. But In the meantime, I will continue to use the 5.2 stuff until I get a probe. Like I said before, I enjoy the beers I brew and so do people who I share it with. I have used the 5.2 stuff for over a year and have not had any detrimental effects that I can tell.

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Old 05-01-2013, 05:56 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by hunter_la5 View Post
Generally someone has to file a complaint before the FTC can investigate and take action against a business. They can't just automatically screen every product out on the market.
It also has to be deemed totally false which it is not. My water is a case in which it works and actually makes a difference of 20% realized efficiency gain and better tasting beer. I have made beers without it that were absolutely bad, turn around with the same recipe and repeatably made great beers with it. Never had a score sheet that said beer was salty and that was even before I switched to potassium in my water softener. So according to a few people on here using the 5.2 and softened water should make all of my beer taste like and over salted Gose. Well it is not.

Oh no, I am never going to get a good crush on my grain either since I have a corona mill. Firemostale, take the information you find useful and laugh at the stuff meant as insults. If you are making good beer, find out why it is good and improve that process little bits at a time.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:29 AM   #16
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I'm fairly new to this hobby. After 2 batches of extract brew I moved on to partial mash. I contacted my local city H2O dept concerning water content. The only thing they test for that applies to beer knowledge/usefulness is sodium. So, I'm in the dark not matter how hard I try.

I'm using it...period. It's either do something, or do nothing. And I had to do something...my beers were coming out darker than they should. Since I started using 5.2, the color is closer to what they should be.
It wasn't a huge difference, but noticeable. Which leads me to believe the mash PH was indeed effected/corrected by it.

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Old 05-01-2013, 12:03 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by firemostale View Post
I realize there are a lot of knowledgable people on this forum, and that is why I post my questions.
And then declare publicly that you are going to ignore the answers given to you by people who have done the research and experiments and taken the trouble to answer your questions.

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I appreciate the helpful information but the smart remarks I can live without.
I'm sorry you were offended but if you put a 'kick me' sign on your backside you are going to have to expect to be kicked from time to time. Has it occurred to you that when you tell someone who has tried to help you that you are going to ignore his advice that such a person may be offended?

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But In the meantime, I will continue to use the 5.2 stuff until I get a probe. Like I said before, I enjoy the beers I brew and so do people who I share it with. I have used the 5.2 stuff for over a year and have not had any detrimental effects that I can tell.
You must do as you see fit. There are lots of other useless things you can do while brewing too.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:14 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by LuckyBeagleBrewing View Post
It also has to be deemed totally false which it is not. My water is a case in which it works and actually makes a difference of 20% realized efficiency gain and better tasting beer.
I always have allowed the possibility that there may be some circumstances under which it actually does what it says it does. You are the first to observe this that I know of and so your observations are important. If you would be willing to post some comparative pH numbers for small mash samples i.e. take a small amount of the grain you normally use when you have success, mash with a small (but in normal proportion) amount of water and measure pH with 5.2 and without we might be able to vindicate this product which, at this point, has a pretty terrible reputation. Please make sure your meter is calibrated per the manufacturer's instructions with fresh buffers and that you do the stability checks discussed at
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ph-...ration-302256/. Also, if you wouldn't mind checking the pH of some DI water with a normal concentration of 5.2 that might give us some insight. Please tell us which pH meter you are using and the temperature at which you took the measurements.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:21 PM   #19
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I get my brew water from the RO machine at the store and pay 37 cents a gallon. Sure, it can be a pain to have to make a trip to grab it but I usually remember to get it while I am out and about. My water is very alkaline and makes it tough to make good light lagers. I build my water up based on AJ's primer and Brunwater and don't have pH issues any longer. I'd recommend trying a batch this way and see if you are happy with the results. I have been very happy.

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Old 05-01-2013, 12:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwapogorilla View Post
I'm using it...period. It's either do something, or do nothing. And I had to do something...my beers were coming out darker than they should. Since I started using 5.2, the color is closer to what they should be.
It wasn't a huge difference, but noticeable. Which leads me to believe the mash PH was indeed effected/corrected by it.
As you are new to the hobby you can't be blamed for coming to the conclusions you did. There are, however, lots of things you can do to improve your beer (none of which involve 5.2). For starters, you can learn what is in your water by sending a sample off to Ward Labs. The cost is minimal. Armed with this you will know whether your water is suitable for brewing. Not everyone's is. Sometimes it is best to just throw it away and use another source which for most people means installation of an RO unit. This is the simplest solution in terms of getting you to the point where you are producing good beer unless you have to drive miles and miles to get RO water. The Primer at http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/bre...primer-198460/ shows you how to get started with that approach. Beyond the Primer there are many approaches (decarbonation, lime treatment, calcium supplementation, sulfate and chloride adjustment, pH adjustment (which can be done with sauermalz, lactic or phosphoric acid but not, apparently, 5.2 in most peoples experience - remember that it doesn't work for people who own pH meters).

People who are making palatable beer with water from the output of a home softener and 5.2 don't know how much better their beer can be because they haven't been there.
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