Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Winners Re-Re-Re-Re-Drawn - 24 hours to Claim!

Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Seconnd AG brew has run into some problems. Some advice please
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-09-2011, 11:46 PM   #1
Snood
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 47
Default Seconnd AG brew has run into some problems. Some advice please

Hi Folks.

A friend and I have just completed our second AG brew and we’d like a little help/feedback on how it’s gone. Our first AG brew was a recipe we followed from here and went very well (except for a dead yeast issue to begin with), this second brew was our own recipe which we’ve put together based on our own tastes as well as seeing what other people have done for their recipes.

The brew day went very well and the colour was spot on but the gravity was a little higher than expected (we got a better efficiency than the 70% we based our recipe on). After the first week of fermentation (we got a nice quick fermentation which was over in about 4 days) we transferred to a secondary fermenter. At this point the beer was amazing, there was plenty of hoppy aroma and the taste was good, immature, but good.

A week later we transferred to a pressure barrel and tested the beer again… the hoppy aroma had completely gone and to taste there was quite a harsh, sharp flavour. I would describe the flavour as an astringent/acetone sort of flavour. We were a little worried but put it in the barrel and went on our Christmas holidays.

It’s now been almost three weeks since we put the beer in the barrel which has been stored at about 5°C. Today I have sampled the beer again. The aroma is still completely missing, the beer appears cloudy and much of the taste as described earlier is present. The taste isn’t as prominent but it’s still very much there.

Our recipe is given below. We’d really appreciate any feedback or advice as to what may have gone wrong and how we may be able to avoid this sort of problem in the future.

Wessex Warmer
Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 6.227
Total Hops (g): 90.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.056 (°P): 13.8
Colour (SRM): 13.5 (EBC): 26.5
Bitterness (IBU): 33.7 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 75

Grain Bill
----------------
4.979 kg Warminster Maris Otter Premium Pale Ale (79.96%)
0.726 kg Warminster Crystal 140 (11.66%)
0.261 kg Biscuit (4.19%)
0.261 kg Carapils (Dextrine) (4.19%)

Hop Bill
----------------
50.0 g Fuggles Leaf (5.4% Alpha) @ 75 Minutes (Boil) (2.2 g/L)
20.0 g East Kent Golding Leaf (4.7% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
20.0 g East Kent Golding Leaf (4.7% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (0.9 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 70°C for 60 Minutes. Batch Sparge
Fermented at 20°C with Safale S-04

__________________
Snood is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2011, 01:22 AM   #2
beerman1957
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
beerman1957's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sierra Vista AZ, AZ
Posts: 207
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Is the beer really sweet and lacking in alcohol or just the opposite?

Here is a thread on Fusel Alcohols. I am not sure the beer can be saved, but MAYBE it can. I have never experienced this problem but I had a friend who did. He fermented at 82F accidentally. The beer was tossed after 3 months of cold conditioning.

__________________
beerman1957 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2011, 01:33 AM   #3
cvstrat
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 691
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Try just leaving the beer in primary for a month next time, then going straight to the keg. I believe you didn't give the yeast time to make the beer taste sexy. Seems like you rushed it quite a bit.

By the way there's no such thing as a secondary fermenter. It's just called secondary. You wouldn't rack the beer to secondary before it was done fermenting, so therefore no fermentation ever takes place in secondary, so it's not called a fermenter.

If you were going to have a beer from pitching the yeast to a keg in 11 days, there's no reason to even use a secondary, unless you just like cleaning up more carboys. You're just adding another chance to infect your beer. Autolysis doesn't take place in 11 days, and is the main reason people ever even racked to secondary in the first place. Not that there's anything wrong w/secondary.. I just wanted you to see how it's totally unnecessary if you are kegging within 11 days.

Honestly I'd recommend skipping secondary altogether unless you're dry hopping. Unless it's a hefeweizen or maybe a light stout or something, I wouldn't rush it to keg/bottle. In fact I'd wait a minimum of 2-4 weeks after pitching before I'd bother kegging.

Once you chill that beer down the yeast is done. My guess is if you would have given it the proper amt of time to do its job it would taste better. Warm, freshly fermented beer with hops still in the carboy will taste/smell hoppier than racked, cooled beer. That type of beer should be served relatively warm I believe. Try that and see if the hops stand out any more.

Good luck!

__________________
cvstrat is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2011, 01:33 AM   #4
Snood
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 47
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerman1957 View Post
Is the beer really sweet and lacking in alcohol or just the opposite?
No, the alcohol as expected. the slightly higher SG meant that it's just short of 6% ABV. (we decided that rather than dilute to reach the target SG, we'd just have a stronger beer).
__________________
Snood is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2011, 01:45 AM   #5
coypoo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 638
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts

Default

There is a thing called secondary fermentation: when you add fruit to a beer, there is more fermentation that occurs in the second vessel.

Aside from that, I think you just racked off the yeast too soon. After fermentation is complete the yeast are still working to cleanup after themselves and remove some off flavors, so I generally leave beers of that gravity in primary for at least 2 weeks.

__________________
coypoo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2011, 01:49 AM   #6
Snood
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 47
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvstrat View Post
Seems like you rushed it quite a bit.
We did, We were leaving for christmas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvstrat View Post
By the way there's no such thing as a secondary fermenter.
Thanks, I get that... the secondary container I use is a fermenter... so I called it a fermenter... now I know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvstrat View Post
Warm, freshly fermented beer with hops still in the carboy will taste/smell hoppier than racked, cooled beer. That type of beer should be served relatively warm I believe. Try that and see if the hops stand out any more.
We mostly serve our beer warm (we are English after all). It's just been in the cold in a bid to try to make it clear. It's worth noting that this bad flavour was apparent after 2 weeks in the warm before we transfered into the pressure barrel.

The beer is by no means a gonner... we'll drink it.. i've had worse beer in a pub... it's just not great, it's this off flavour and the complete absence of hop aroma. I'm reluctant to dry hop, from what i understand it's not a very British technique (as you can see from our ingredients, we're trying to stick to typically British ingredients, for now at least)
__________________
Snood is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2011, 01:52 AM   #7
Snood
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 47
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coypoo View Post
Aside from that, I think you just racked off the yeast too soon. After fermentation is complete the yeast are still working to cleanup after themselves and remove some off flavors.
The thing i don't get here though is that after one week, awesome flavour (if a bit young) and really awesome hop aroma.. after the second week.. bad flavour has crept in on top and no aroma.
__________________
Snood is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2011, 02:58 AM   #8
pkeeler
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 740
Liked 4 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Try just leaving the beer in primary for a month next time, then going straight to the keg. I believe you didn't give the yeast time to make the beer taste sexy. Seems like you rushed it quite a bit.
Quote:
Aside from that, I think you just racked off the yeast too soon. After fermentation is complete the yeast are still working to cleanup after themselves and remove some off flavors, so I generally leave beers of that gravity in primary for at least 2 weeks.
There is plenty of yeast to clean up any fermentation by products and they don't need the cold break to do it. Moving the beer to another vessel will not stop fermentation or any yeast process. German brewers rack right after high krausen with no problems.

Is it possible your fermenters were exposed to light? Or while you were on holiday, the temp. in the room with your beer spiked up to 75-85? The fact it tasted fine after the initial fermentation, but then developed an off flavor suggests, to me, that something happened while you were away. If the beer is mellowing, it will probably continue to do so with age.
__________________
pkeeler is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2011, 12:22 PM   #9
Snood
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 47
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkeeler View Post
Is it possible your fermenters were exposed to light?
Well the beer is stored mainly in my living room which is maily quite dull but often has light and over the break it was exposed to diffusd daylight every day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkeeler View Post
Or while you were on holiday, the temp. in the room with your beer spiked up to 75-85? The fact it tasted fine after the initial fermentation, but then developed an off flavor suggests, to me, that something happened while you were away. If the beer is mellowing, it will probably continue to do so with age.
But the off flavour first developed before we went away. While we were away the beer was stored in a semi-out-house, In winter, in England. The temperature round here has been around -4 up to a maximum of about +5 celsius. the roomdoes get a little heat from the house heeping just above freezing when it's below 0 outside.


Does anyone have any ideas about the clarity of our beer?
__________________
Snood is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2011, 03:36 PM   #10
pkeeler
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 740
Liked 4 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Well the beer is stored mainly in my living room which is maily quite dull but often has light and over the break it was exposed to diffusd daylight every day.
Bingo! Put a blanket or black garbage bag over your fermenter. Beer should never be exposed to light, and sunlight is the worst.
__________________
pkeeler is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New brew schedule... or how to brew with toddlers! (input/advice sought!) Zymurgrafi All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 56 10-22-2013 06:22 PM
2nd AG brew day: OG and Sparge problems :( Clint81 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 11-23-2009 01:23 PM
A split brew day. Problems? Laughing_Gnome_Invisible All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 7 09-22-2009 07:16 AM
Some problems with my brew system.... Jaybird All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 35 12-12-2008 05:45 PM
Wicked bad brewing problems, need advice hoplobster All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 27 03-08-2008 12:10 AM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS